(02-26-2021, 10:04 AM)Tim Randal Walker Wrote: "Nomad" is the best description I have come across for that archetype.  Better than "Reactive", which could be confused with "Adaptive".

I prefer "Civic" to "Hero" for that archetype.  With the Gilded as an example, I believe that Nomads can be shoe horned into a Hero role.

Don't care much for "Adaptive", but prefer it to "Artist"-any archetypal generation can have artists, such as painter, sculptors, musicians, etc.

(02-28-2021, 02:34 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-26-2021, 10:04 AM)Tim Randal Walker Wrote: "Nomad" is the best description I have come across for that archetype.  Better than "Reactive", which could be confused with "Adaptive".

I prefer "Civic" to "Hero" for that archetype.  With the Gilded as an example, I believe that Nomads can be shoe horned into a Hero role.

Don't care much for "Adaptive", but prefer it to "Artist"-any archetypal generation can have artists, such as painter, sculptors, musicians, etc.

Agreed. "Reactive" is also too pejorative, although S&H didn't mean it to be.

(02-28-2021, 08:20 PM)Tim Randal Walker Wrote: I have preferred "Idealist", rather than "Prophet".

(02-28-2021, 04:10 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-28-2021, 02:34 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-26-2021, 10:04 AM)Tim Randal Walker Wrote: "Nomad" is the best description I have come across for that archetype.  Better than "Reactive", which could be confused with "Adaptive".

I prefer "Civic" to "Hero" for that archetype.  With the Gilded as an example, I believe that Nomads can be shoe horned into a Hero role.

Don't care much for "Adaptive", but prefer it to "Artist"-any archetypal generation can have artists, such as painter, sculptors, musicians, etc.

Agreed. "Reactive" is also too pejorative, although S&H didn't mean it to be.

In a way, it is more descriptive, though. There is a very decided reaction to the excesses of the Prophets (or whatever name seems better).  I don't think Moralist fits in place of Prophet, though Proactive may be a good description, but not very inspiring.

I doubt there is a great fit, because each archetype needs to cover many generations over time, and they do differ substantially.

(02-28-2021, 04:10 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-28-2021, 02:34 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-26-2021, 10:04 AM)Tim Randal Walker Wrote: "Nomad" is the best description I have come across for that archetype.  Better than "Reactive", which could be confused with "Adaptive".

I prefer "Civic" to "Hero" for that archetype.  With the Gilded as an example, I believe that Nomads can be shoe horned into a Hero role.

Don't care much for "Adaptive", but prefer it to "Artist"-any archetypal generation can have artists, such as painter, sculptors, musicians, etc.

Agreed. "Reactive" is also too pejorative, although S&H didn't mean it to be.

In a way, it is more descriptive, though. There is a very decided reaction to the excesses of the Prophets (or whatever name seems better).  I don't think Moralist fits in place of Prophet, though Proactive may be a good description, but not very inspiring.

I doubt there is a great fit, because each archetype needs to cover many generations over time, and they do differ substantially.

(02-26-2021, 02:55 AM)Captain Genet Wrote: My proposal is:
-Dreamers for Artists
-Moralists for Prophets
-Entertainers for Nomads
-Builders for Civics

Other name ideas:
-Romantic and Modernist saeculums for S&H's civil war and great power saeculum. My names have more worldwide appeal.
-Social Gospel awakening for the awakening of late 19th century
-I'd love to call Boomers and Millennials the Polarized and Onliner generation but it is waaay too late to change that

(03-01-2021, 01:34 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I like "Prophet" very much. It includes the aspect of a generation propelled by a spiritual awakening, something many people have forgotten about in our 4T times, but which many of us boomers like me resonate with totally. "Idealist" is misleading, as it suggests that prophet generations are driven by liberal ideals for the future. But this archetype seems to split between liberal and conservative, and I don't agree that conservatives like George W Bush or Donald Trump are "idealists." They, like others of this archetype, do adhere to and promote ideologies-- rather too self-righteously and rigidly. But ideologies and values and such are not necessarily beneficent and liberal, as the word "idealist" implies. I prefer myself to reserve the word for those who hold and promote beneficent, liberal ideals. And certainly Boomers have much in common with Missionaries, just as the 2Ts in which they were young were very similar.

This is similar I guess as to how I want the word "populist" restored to its original meaning. Now it just means appealing to the prejudices of the "ignorant common rabble." I would rather put the responsibility upon the common people to be truly interested in the power of the people, and I think we all have enough intelligence to know when we are being led astray by having our prejudices and fears stoked. Even though today's trumpers and xenophobes grossly fail to do this. And who are the common people? Are supposedly well-educated people and academics not part of the common people too? I prefer "the elite" to be correctly defined too, as the group that have the power that all the people should have instead, not the intelligencia or academics or entertainers or journalists as conservatives today want to define it as.

(03-01-2021, 01:43 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I don't think the Generation X/Lost archetype should be defined only by how they reacted to the prophet Boomers and Missionaries, etc. They have their own identity, not just one based on reaction to another archetype. I think S&H meant the term "Reactive" to signify an experimental attitude, an ability to respond and act in bold and adventurous ways; very situational and realistic, pragmatic, often cynical or gruff, and going off in their own direction; independent, self-reliant and inner-directed, although not introspective or philosophical like prophets are supposed to be and often are. But "reactive" is a poor word for this. Nomad is a bit better, at least.

(01-16-2021, 09:11 AM)jleagans Wrote: I think there may be some value in calling the Prophets the "conflicts" and getting society to go along with it, as it can help us prepare for the conflict they bring in advance.  For example, if Alphas start this year in 2021 we should expect the "summer of love" and wild '60's to hit in 2042, and shouldn't be surprised when it does.

(03-01-2021, 02:01 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(03-01-2021, 01:43 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I don't think the Generation X/Lost archetype should be defined only by how they reacted to the prophet Boomers and Missionaries, etc. They have their own identity, not just one based on reaction to another archetype. I think S&H meant the term "Reactive" to signify an experimental attitude, an ability to respond and act in bold and adventurous ways; very situational and realistic, pragmatic, often cynical or gruff, and going off in their own direction; independent, self-reliant and inner-directed, although not introspective or philosophical like prophets are supposed to be and often are. But "reactive" is a poor word for this. Nomad is a bit better, at least.

Yet it was those prior generations that set the tone that moved the next gens to oppose them.

(03-01-2021, 01:57 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(03-01-2021, 01:34 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I like "Prophet" very much. It includes the aspect of a generation propelled by a spiritual awakening, something many people have forgotten about in our 4T times, but which many of us boomers like me resonate with totally. "Idealist" is misleading, as it suggests that prophet generations are driven by liberal ideals for the future. But this archetype seems to split between liberal and conservative, and I don't agree that conservatives like George W Bush or Donald Trump are "idealists." They, like others of this archetype, do adhere to and promote ideologies-- rather too self-righteously and rigidly. But ideologies and values and such are not necessarily beneficent and liberal, as the word "idealist" implies. I prefer myself to reserve the word for those who hold and promote beneficent, liberal ideals. And certainly Boomers have much in common with Missionaries, just as the 2Ts in which they were young were very similar.

This is similar I guess as to how I want the word "populist" restored to its original meaning. Now it just means appealing to the prejudices of the "ignorant common rabble." I would rather put the responsibility upon the common people to be truly interested in the power of the people, and I think we all have enough intelligence to know when we are being led astray by having our prejudices and fears stoked. Even though today's trumpers and xenophobes grossly fail to do this. And who are the common people? Are supposedly well-educated people and academics not part of the common people too? I prefer "the elite" to be correctly defined too, as the group that have the power that all the people should have instead, not the intelligencia or academics or entertainers or journalists as conservatives today want to define it as.

Let me raise another undeniable point: we all see things through our own eyes, and act accordingly.  So Trumpers of any given gen are the polar opposite of the Bernie Bros of the same gen, yet both share an archetype.  Typically, the one aspect that is truly the same is disposition.  We Boomers are opinionated and cranky, regardless of what makes us that way.  Maybe that's the baseline.

That said, I'm still baffled by the obsequious nature of the MAGA crowd -- knowing full well how irredeemable their hero is in real life.  They smell a skunk, yet admire the fine odor.

(03-01-2021, 02:06 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-01-2021, 02:01 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(03-01-2021, 01:43 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I don't think the Generation X/Lost archetype should be defined only by how they reacted to the prophet Boomers and Missionaries, etc. They have their own identity, not just one based on reaction to another archetype. I think S&H meant the term "Reactive" to signify an experimental attitude, an ability to respond and act in bold and adventurous ways; very situational and realistic, pragmatic, often cynical or gruff, and going off in their own direction; independent, self-reliant and inner-directed, although not introspective or philosophical like prophets are supposed to be and often are. But "reactive" is a poor word for this. Nomad is a bit better, at least.

Yet it was those prior generations that set the tone that moved the next gens to oppose them.

So then all generations are "reactives." And not just to the immediately prior ones. Boomers "reacted" mostly to the GIs, and were inspired by the Silent "Artists" as well as going in a new direction from those Silents who submitted to the way things were. Gen X does not just oppose Boomers. They are supposed, at least, to be the managers that carry out the boomers' plans. See for example 1964 Xers Kamala Harris and Susan Rice. In our Crisis era I would suggest these blue Xers are becoming just what S&H said they would be now, and we are seeing more blue Xers come to the fore, instead of the Reaganoid ones that predominated in the 3T and early 4T-- they being the ones that reacted so poorly as they often should not have done to the boomers and silents. Like our Classic Xer.

(03-02-2021, 09:50 AM)Captain Genet Wrote: For me "idealist" means a person who is driven by a desire for nobler life, not driven by either carnal pleasure, acquisitive impulses, or glorification of one's tribe. Is Trump an idealist? No, he only cares for money, power and sex. Were hippies idealists? Some people might suppose they were, but a life of sex, drugs and rock'n'roll deserves to be called hedonism, not idealism.

(03-02-2021, 09:50 AM)Captain Genet Wrote: For me "idealist" means a person who is driven by a desire for nobler life, not driven by either carnal pleasure, acquisitive impulses, or glorification of one's tribe. Is Trump an idealist? No, he only cares for money, power and sex. Were hippies idealists? Some people might suppose they were, but a life of sex, drugs and rock'n'roll deserves to be called hedonism, not idealism.

(03-01-2021, 01:56 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-26-2021, 02:55 AM)Captain Genet Wrote: My proposal is:
-Dreamers for Artists
-Moralists for Prophets
-Entertainers for Nomads
-Builders for Civics

Other name ideas:
-Romantic and Modernist saeculums for S&H's civil war and great power saeculum. My names have more worldwide appeal.
-Social Gospel awakening for the awakening of late 19th century
-I'd love to call Boomers and Millennials the Polarized and Onliner generation but it is waaay too late to change that

Your names for the saecula seem very apt to me. Otherwise, for the generations: nice try, but I prefer the original names.