(06-23-2016, 09:06 PM)Dan Wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/23/leave-or-remain-eu-referendum-results-and-live-maps/

 Looks like "leave" has a decent chance of winning, in area where the results have come in leave is doing much better than expected.

(06-23-2016, 09:06 PM)Dan 82 Wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/23/leave-or-remain-eu-referendum-results-and-live-maps/

 Looks like "leave" has a decent chance of winning, in area where the results have come in leave is doing much better than expected.

Greece Wrote:Open Letter to the UK citizens about the June 2016 Referendum
Dear British voters,
United Kingdom joined the European Community in 1973 and it is worth to mention that the people have not been asked prior signing the membership agreement. Only two years later, in 1975 you decided in a referendum if you want to stay in the European Community, which was approved by 66 percent of the voters.
The basic idea, as it was explained to the people in Europe, was a community of European nations in friendship, solidarity, mutual benefit and democracy: Basic European Values.
Unfortunately, these inviting promises proved to be false or failed. There is nothing about freedom, solidarity or friendship in the European Union. The European Union has proven to act on behalf of the interest of banks, multi-national enterprises and groups in the shadow, as advised by professional think-tanks and lobbyists, not in favor of its people. In fact, the European Union is an economic union with a common market (without internal borders) which enables a free circulation of money, goods and people/workforce, and an ongoing process to harmonize business standards. The European Union is designed as a cartel and typically, there is a lack of democratic structures and processes: democracy becomes a disturbing factor.
 
Democracy, and especially direct democracy, is against any fiber of this European Union
 
The peoples’ vote got lost in the bureaucracy of the European Union. The European Union is driven by technocrats and an agenda which will lead to the United States of Europe shortly, the loss of the national sovereignty and identity of the European countries. The national parliaments have already delegated to a large extend their responsibilities and sovereignty to the European Institutions and consequently the national voting becomes more and more irrelevant.
The European Parliament, the only institution in the European Union the people voted for, has a more or less decorative function, it cannot legislate as we know it from national parliaments. The European Commission, which is in fact the European government, is not elected. It consists of delegates from the national governments. As Horst Seehofer - Prime Minister of Bavaria - put it: Those who are elected do not decide and those who decide are not elected.
European Union has a track history of ignoring the vote of the people. Referenda are only welcome if they approve the official policy of the European Union. If the people didn’t vote as requested, the governments used to arrange an information campaign and repeat the referendum until the outcome is convenient or the referendum result is ignored or twisted.
Denmark voted in the referendum in June 1992 against the Maastricht treaty, the re-negotiated version was approved in a second referendum in May 1993.  
In 2001 Irish voters rejected the Treaty of Nice, in a second referendum 2002 it was approved.
France voted in May 2005 against the proposed European Constitution. Referenda would have also to be held in Czech, Denmark, Ireland, Poland, Portugal and the UK. As the risk of more refusals was too high, the European Union decided to modify the text and sign them as treaty by the national governments, this is what we have today as Treaty of Lisbon.
We, the Greek people, voted in July 2015 against further austerity measures required by the Troika, and our vote was ignored. Prior the referendum even highest officials of the European Union warned the Greek people not to vote NO as this would lead to a Grexit, even this is not ruled in the European treaties.
In March 2016, the European Union signed a deal with Turkey on the migration crisis. Part of the deal is that the European Union takes over a quota of migrants and distributes them by a defined key within the European countries. Hungary has announced to hold a referendum on the enforced migration, this referendum was condemned as an undemocratic measure.
Some time ago, the Dutch people voted in a referendum against the EU-Ukraine agreement. EU officials mentioned in several interviews, that obviously referenda are dangerous and a threat against the European Union. Truly, referenda are dangerous to today’s E.U., but not dangerous to the people of Europe. In the meantime, there are serious discussions to prohibit referenda within the European Union in general in order to avoid further conflicts.
Even in Switzerland, the country with the most enhanced practice of referenda, the politicians fear more than anything else the vote of the people, as it may destroy their plans in case the people do not vote as they recommend them.
The European Alliance stop-TTIP is an initiative of more than 500 organizations all over Europe and has collected more than 3.4 million signatures in order to stop TTIP and CETA. Those agreements are considered as a threat to democracy, environment, consumers and labour standards. But the European Commission ignores them…
Dear friends of democracy in the UK,
We want to express our solidarity as we know that you have to take a historical decision for your country and for your people, as we did last summer.
On 23rd June 2016 you will have to decide in a referendum on the United Kingdom’s membership of the European Union. A referendum is a direct democratic element, the highest expression of the peoples will, a privilege and a rare opportunity in the European Union.
You have now the historical chance to mark your national independence day and stop the further transformation of Europe into a European dictatorship.
Democracy is the key to freedom, peace and prosperity; it protects human rights and ensures respect and tolerance.
Our thoughts are with you, we send you best wishes from Greece for a democratic voting,
* * * 
List of Greek political parties, entities and persons signing the Open Letter to the UK citizens

Quote:http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/06/08/british-crave-more-autonomy-from-eu-as-brexit-vote-nears/
… "The UK is not alone in its preference for a less centralized union. A median of 42% of Europeans across the 10 countries surveyed say they want to reclaim some powers from Brussels, while just 19% favor greater centralization (27% prefer the status quo). Only Greece, which spent much of last summer fighting the EU over a contentious debt crisis, rivals the UK in its desire for more autonomy (68% of Greeks voice this view).”…

(06-24-2016, 08:45 AM)Bronco80 Wrote: Wow.  The 4T marches on...
OK, fellow S&H readers, what do we make of the generational breakdown here, if anything?

Quote:Younger votes have taken to social media to express anger at baby boomers who they blame for securing a Leave vote in the EU referendum.

According to the last YouGov poll before the referendum, 72% of 18 to 24-year-olds were in favour of a Remain vote, while just 19% backed Brexit.

In contrast, 34% of pensioners were in favour of Remain, while 59% favoured Brexit...



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/millenials-fury-over-baby-boomers-vote-for-brexit/

(06-24-2016, 08:45 AM)Bronco80 Wrote: Wow.  The 4T marches on...

OK, fellow S&H readers, what do we make of the generational breakdown here, if anything?

(06-24-2016, 08:36 AM)radind Wrote: The desire for more autonomy was a big factor. Looks like a bad decision that will hurt the UK economically.

Eric The Green Wrote:The Europeans can reform the EU to make it more democratic if they choose. The countries are democratic. Without Britain a voice for reform and for action on climate change is leaving. The union allowed for freer commerce and mutual support. Now Germany has a much bigger role in the EU. I don't think that will be too appealing to the other members.

Quote:I don't make a prediction right now about this; I don't remember predicting such a thing for this time. Certainly the EU is in danger now. The motivating factor, as I see reported, is not a rebellion against elites, but big business that doesn't want what are probably sensible regulations on them, and fear of immigrants through free movement within the EU, including fear of loss of national identity. These are not good and proper motives. It's more like British Trumpism.

Quote:England is going more right-wing. Cameron's big re-election already showed that, although "conservative" in Britain is more like a moderate-liberal in the USA.

Quote:Scotland may well now separate from the UK, and rejoin the EU. If it does, it will have to adopt the Euro and adjust to the difference in currency across "Hadrian's Wall." The Scots are more liberal, meaning that they have much more sense about things, than the stuffy, proud and old-fashioned English-- the same folks who not long ago could not stand the thought of the Falkland Islands leaving their empire.

(06-24-2016, 11:30 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(06-24-2016, 08:45 AM)Bronco80 Wrote: Wow.  The 4T marches on...

OK, fellow S&H readers, what do we make of the generational breakdown here, if anything?

Uh, what's the picture supposed to be?  I just see a square with white shapes in it.

(06-24-2016, 11:41 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: It is so , rebelling against a bunch of globalist elitist pond scum.  If nobody believes me, look at this:
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in-focus/ttip/about-ttip/

The TTIP is just evil, plain evil.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html

Quote:Whatever, finally, some country has the balls to reject globalist crap.  May the UKIP get some sister party here in the US.  

Quote:Scotland may as well grab a tube of lube if they want to join the EU. Their economy will get strip mined just like a whole lot of other "lesser regions".