+- Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory (http://generational-theory.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Fourth Turning Forums (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-1.html)
+--- Forum: Current Events (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-34.html)
+---- Forum: General Political Discussion (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-15.html)
+---- Thread: I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT! (/thread-548.html)
RE: I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT! - Eric the Green - 02-09-2017
(02-09-2017, 05:02 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:(02-09-2017, 03:43 PM)Eric the Gree Wrote: It's got to work sooner or later. Celebrities, and whoever else we got. Just lots of talented folks who know how to communicate. Remember, this is California. We know all about that. Or do you even know what's been going on here for 50+ years?Uh, no. Just look at this flock of self righteous preening peacocks and peahens!
1. Do folks actually watch this shit on TeeVee?
2. Just look at that fat fuck who want to punch folks in the face. I bet high school boys could waste his sorry ass.
3. Yes, please do TAKE FREAKS, ILLEGALS, WHATEVERS, INTO YOUR OWN FUCKING MANSIONS!
4. I don't even know who these "celebrities" really are. I just don't give a rat's ass.
5. Obviously I haven't missed a thing since pulling the cord.
That has nothing to do with what I am alluding to, and escapes you obviously, but to me it's obvious what I meant, and what people should remember about what went on in CA the last 50 years. But oh well. I wouldn't watch that stuff and don't give a rat's ass either. No, I don't think folks watch that shit, but how would I know?
RE: I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT! - SomeGuy - 02-09-2017
Quote:Again, I read nothing there except that you consider "Republicans in general" to be a strawman.
Oh, no, I was merely pointing out that droning on about "my" preachers, and Rush Limbaugh and "Shawn" and all the rest was talking "at" me, not to me.
Reading, apparently not one of your strong suits.
Quote:"My backyard;" you take that image literally, but expect me to take an ethnic stereotype as mere sarcasm. Think again.
I think always.
I still think you should provide those people futons, or tents at the very least. Think of how hard they've been working.
And somebody who refers to people from Asia as "Orientals" and derides Mexican's "junky" music and denies that their culture will be any more prominent in the US in the future should probably avoid looking at changing demographics and assume that those people all are going to march in lockstep with your values simply because they happen to be voting "blue" now.
RE: I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT! - Eric the Green - 02-09-2017
(02-09-2017, 05:39 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:Quote:Again, I read nothing there except that you consider "Republicans in general" to be a strawman.
Oh, no, I was merely pointing out that droning on about "my" preachers, and Rush Limbaugh and "Shawn" and all the rest was talking "at" me, not to me.
Reading, apparently not one of your strong suits.
It's not necessarily about YOU. It's about Republicans and their side which, however, you supported.
Quote:Quote:"My backyard;" you take that image literally, but expect me to take an ethnic stereotype as mere sarcasm. Think again.
I think always.
I still think you should provide those people futons, or tents at the very least. Think of how hard they've been working.
And somebody who refers to people from Asia as "Orientals" and derides Mexican's "junky" music and denies that their culture will be any more prominent in the US in the future should probably avoid looking at changing demographics and assume that those people all are going to march in lockstep with your values simply because they happen to be voting "blue" now.
I provide them with futons in the form of ambient music, if they choose to listen.
I don't know how hispanics will vote in the future, or whether they will buy into Reaganomics in the future or not. But I think:
1) Reaganomics can't continue to rule the roost forever. After 40 years of its failure, Reagan and his successors will probably not be able to cast their spell on hispanics as they have on poor white people from middle America, and probably its appeal will decline even in white middle America. You can't fool all of the people, all of the time, as Republicans (and maybe you?) hope to do. Reaganomics aka free market economics, aka libertarian economics, aka neo-liberalism etc. etc. whatever name you prefer, has failed, and will always fail, no matter how Republicans cleverly market it with their Orwellian double speak about "liberty" and "freedom." It's going to fail again under Trump, and hispanics are more likely than whites to realize it, because they are not so kindly disposed to it to begin with, given their general socio-economic status in the USA.
2) Right now, we're talking about a group that is under assault and insult by Trump. Drump's going to be around for a while; no-one knows how long. Hispanics were already down on Republicans; thanks in part to our own CA Gov. Wilson and his Prop.187. I think this orange monstrosity is going to keep them down on Republicans for the duration of the 4T. And as I allude to above, libertarian economics may not be too persuasive in a 1T either, but we'll see.
RE: I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT! - Marypoza - 02-12-2017
http://usuncut.news/2016/11/10/calexit-may-actually-happen-for-california-and-sooner-than-you-think-details/
RE: I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT! - Bronsin - 02-13-2017
It's funny how they seem to think that they are ready to be their own Country with calexit, yet Gov. Brown is asking for Federal help with the recent problems with flooding and such. Just like my 14yr old daughter, who is so ready to be all grown-up and one her own, yet the minute she hits a snag, she has to get her parents to fix it, so it is with Commiefornia...........
RE: I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT! - David Horn - 02-13-2017
(02-13-2017, 06:50 AM)Bronsin Wrote: It's funny how they seem to think that they are ready to be their own Country with calexit, yet Gov. Brown is asking for Federal help with the recent problems with flooding and such. Just like my 14yr old daughter, who is so ready to be all grown-up and one her own, yet the minute she hits a snag, she has to get her parents to fix it, so it is with Commiefornia...........
Commiefornia, as you call it, funds the crisis response for all those Red States that claim to be so self sufficient ... until they aren't. When they have crisis issues, they deserve to get some of their own money back.
RE: I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT! - Marypoza - 02-13-2017
It's on:
http://sacramentodispatch.com/trump-denies-ca-plea-for-federal-funds-cites-sanctuary-cities/
RE: I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT! - Ragnarök_62 - 02-13-2017
(02-13-2017, 11:49 AM)Marypoza Wrote: It's on:
http://sacramentodispatch.com/trump-denies-ca-plea-for-federal-funds-cites-sanctuary-cities/
OK, hmmmm... OK President Trump really messed this one up.
From 2 POV's one humantarian, one logical
Humanitarian of course is there's like a huge assed flood/dam breakage which is dorking with Americans.
Logical.
1. Disaster assistance has been granted for smaller disasters than this one. Oklahoma gets disaster assistance when stuff like tornadoes roar through metro area, ice storms, droughts, etc. The damn damage/flooding I believe is a disaster worthy of aid since other places get aid for events of this magnitude.
2. Granting of aid is thus fair in this case.
3. One can pick between option A or B for effects.
A. Ego stroking. I feel better getting even with "California". I guess "California" means every person's an enemy who bruised his ego or some such.
B. If this part of California isn't solid blue, then it should help his own poll numbers at least there.
It should boost poll numbers if anyone in the area is an elected Republican.
![[Image: joint.gif]](http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/smoke/joint.gif){kind=small}
RE: I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT! - Eric the Green - 02-13-2017
Democratic presidents have always been very willing to help Republican states like Oklahoma and South Carolina when disaster strikes. Trump hasn't actually decided what to do, but if he acts on his grudge against CA by denying disaster relief, I imagine Republicans in CA would turn against him. If this becomes a pattern, then the whole state could secede, and all the eastern and north-eastern red CA counties would go along.
Personally I don't understand the fuss. I don't think Democrats in CA want illegal immigrants who break the law in their cities or the state to go scot free. I don't see why they would disagree with the USA deporting them, if the crimes are serious. But if the Trumpies contend that just crossing the border illegally is the crime worthy of deportation, then CA will stand against this come what may.
Republicans have created this mess by refusing to approve a fair and strict immigration reform law that even George W Bush supported, and now going along with Trump's hysteria.
Of course, Trump's grudge is about more than illegal immigration and sanctuary; it's because CA voted against him too. A bruised ego is not sufficient grounds for not using public funds (of which CA pays more than its share) to help CA citizens really "bruised" by disasters.
RE: I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT! - Ragnarök_62 - 03-04-2017
(02-13-2017, 08:32 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:(02-13-2017, 06:50 AM)Bronsin Wrote: It's funny how they seem to think that they are ready to be their own Country with calexit, yet Gov. Brown is asking for Federal help with the recent problems with flooding and such. Just like my 14yr old daughter, who is so ready to be all grown-up and one her own, yet the minute she hits a snag, she has to get her parents to fix it, so it is with Commiefornia...........
Hey Einstein ... I would gladly short pay my Federal Taxes in order to not have some nattering nabob spouting BS. It would in fact be great for us to cease all outflow of tax dollars to Washington in return for controlling our own state level FEMA.
Back to normally scheduled programming ...
1. Of course the usual. Good luck to y'all affected by the Oreville dam mess.
2. Like, why can't Oklahoma do something this to fill our 847 million budget gap?
![[Image: legalweed-3-932x891.jpg]](https://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/legalweed-3-932x891.jpg)
Why of course, weed, due to numerous strains is like a fine wine. A blend for every palate / calm or excited buzz.
RE: I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT! - TeacherinExile - 03-09-2017
Wasn't sure where to post this biting satirical piece, but this thread looks as good a place as any:
It's Time for a Bluexit | New Republic
The article gives a nod to Jonathan Swift. So, as a retired English teacher, I could not resist. I chuckled from the first paragraph to the last. The writer's "Modest Proposal" is obviously (and intentionally) impractical as a whole, though some Blue states and cities are indeed going their own way on some issues, such as minimum wage hikes. Actually, given the extreme polarization of our body politic around a whole range of issues, I wouldn't be at all surprised if "Virtual Secession" took place in these "United" States. Limited, of course, to those like me who have the luxury of geographic mobility.
Regardless of your political affiliation, the article is worth a quick read for its mordant wit alone. Spoiler alert: Trumpian triumphalists may take offense. Democratic (especially Clinton) apologists, too.
RE: I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT! - SomeGuy - 03-09-2017
Was it really satire? Beyond the tag "a modest proposal", echoes of Mr. Swift were not much in evidence.
RE: I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT! - Eric the Green - 03-09-2017
(03-09-2017, 01:09 PM)TeacherinExile Wrote: Wasn't sure where to post this biting satirical piece, but this thread looks as good a place as any:
It's Time for a Bluexit | New Republic
The article gives a nod to Jonathan Swift. So, as a retired English teacher, I could not resist. I chuckled from the first paragraph to the last. The writer's "Modest Proposal" is obviously (and intentionally) impractical as a whole, though some Blue states and cities are indeed going their own way on some issues, such as minimum wage hikes. Actually, given the extreme polarization of our body politic around a whole range of issues, I wouldn't be at all surprised if "Virtual Secession" took place in these "United" States. Limited, of course, to those like me who have the luxury of geographic mobility.
Regardless of your political affiliation, the article is worth a quick read for its mordant wit alone. Spoiler alert: Trumpian triumphalists may take offense. Democratic (especially Clinton) apologists, too.
Excellent. This is the new America that SomeGuy, Kinser, Galen, bobc, Bronsin, and all you other conservative Trumpsters want. If you manage to stem the demographic tide with your border controls, and your assaults on democracy, then we'll have little choice besides one form of bluexit or another.
RE: I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT! - TeacherinExile - 03-09-2017
(03-09-2017, 01:25 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Was it really satire? Beyond the tag "a modest proposal", echoes of Mr. Swift were not much in evidence.
Picky, picky. It would be hard to match a true master of the genre, such as Jonathan Swift. The piece at least has satirical aspiration. This reminds me of all the back-and-forth about whether Alanis Morrisette's song was truly "Ironic," although that tune may be a stale cultural reference for Millennials posting here.
Alanis Morissette - Ironic (OFFICIAL VIDEO) - YouTube
RE: I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT! - Eric the Green - 03-09-2017
Interesting and pretty artist; familiar name, but I don't know her music. I wonder if she's the singer of that song I keep hearing on the Lucky/Safeway store musack that I can never identify..... I can't make out the words though so I don't know if it's relevant to this thread.... I wonder what gabrielle thinks; did she ever get to 1995?
RE: I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT! - SomeGuy - 03-09-2017
(03-09-2017, 02:28 PM)TeacherinExile Wrote:(03-09-2017, 01:25 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Was it really satire? Beyond the tag "a modest proposal", echoes of Mr. Swift were not much in evidence.
Picky, picky. It would be hard to match a true master of the genre, such as Jonathan Swift. The piece at least has satirical aspiration. This reminds me of all the back-and-forth about whether Alanis Morrisette's song was truly "Ironic," although that tune may be a stale cultural reference for Millennials posting here.
Alanis Morissette - Ironic (OFFICIAL VIDEO) - YouTube
I'm a Millennial, and I remember that reference just fine.
Honestly, it just sounded petulant. Does this sort of "US GOOD/THEM BAD!" stuff really pass as 'wit' for you?
Look at the two positive responses you got above, does it sound like they're treating it as satire?
RE: I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT! - Kinser79 - 03-09-2017
(03-09-2017, 02:16 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Excellent. This is the new America that SomeGuy, Kinser, Galen, bobc, Bronsin, and all you other conservative Trumpsters want. If you manage to stem the demographic tide with your border controls, and your assaults on democracy, then we'll have little choice besides one form of bluexit or another.
I can't speak for the others, but I've been saying that the US is to large to be properly governed for decades. Yes the Blue states should go. Go and form their own countries. Everyone will be better off. Maybe we can deport all the decrepit morons invading Florida from New York. Could be worse though I understand AZ is being invaded by aging hippies which has to be worse.
Also, Eric, I'm not a conservative. There is little of the current order I want to conserve.
RE: I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT! - Galen - 03-10-2017
(03-09-2017, 08:39 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:(03-09-2017, 02:16 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Excellent. This is the new America that SomeGuy, Kinser, Galen, bobc, Bronsin, and all you other conservative Trumpsters want. If you manage to stem the demographic tide with your border controls, and your assaults on democracy, then we'll have little choice besides one form of bluexit or another.
I can't speak for the others, but I've been saying that the US is to large to be properly governed for decades. Yes the Blue states should go. Go and form their own countries. Everyone will be better off. Maybe we can deport all the decrepit morons invading Florida from New York. Could be worse though I understand AZ is being invaded by aging hippies which has to be worse.
I wish you guys would hurry up and get on with leaving then. I will be happy to see California go and it should be fun to see them implode their own economy.
RE: I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT! - TeacherinExile - 03-10-2017
(03-09-2017, 06:02 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:I take it, you read my reply, the part about aspiration? Alanis Morissette thought she was being ironic. Not really. You realize, too, that I taught literature for many years, and quite possibly know what constitutes satire? Just as I would show you some deference on military strategy and tactics by virtue of your experience.(03-09-2017, 02:28 PM)TeacherinExile Wrote:(03-09-2017, 01:25 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Was it really satire? Beyond the tag "a modest proposal", echoes of Mr. Swift were not much in evidence.
Picky, picky. It would be hard to match a true master of the genre, such as Jonathan Swift. The piece at least has satirical aspiration. This reminds me of all the back-and-forth about whether Alanis Morrisette's song was truly "Ironic," although that tune may be a stale cultural reference for Millennials posting here.
Alanis Morissette - Ironic (OFFICIAL VIDEO) - YouTube
I'm a Millennial, and I remember that reference just fine.
Honestly, it just sounded petulant. Does this sort of "US GOOD/THEM BAD!" stuff really pass as 'wit' for you?
Look at the two positive responses you got above, does it sound like they're treating it as satire?
You have perhaps mistaken me for someone who feels trapped in a binary choice, as in "You must vote for either Hillary or Trump." I've been a true independent (not to be confused with a "swing voter") since 1992. So there is no "Us vs. Them" with me: conservative vs. liberal, Republican vs. Democrat, ad nauseum. I subscribe to no creed--political, religious, or otherwise. I am a radical democrat (with a small-d), and detest extremism in any form. And in my adopted state of Arizona there is unfortunately evidence aplenty of that coming from the Right. (It is just as likely some day that such extremism may come from the Left--just as it did in the Sixties--and I will oppose that extremism just as vociferously, should it rear its ugly head.)
In the last election there were choices other than Clinton and Trump. Personally, I thought both candidates were "deplorable," although not equally so. I voted Green because I don't see how either candidate is a vote against the predations of Wall Street, our penchant for military adventurism, or subsidies for industries that gouge their customers (Big Pharma being among the worst). I have stated before that, if you voted for Trump, you owe me nor anyone else on this forum an explanation as to your rationale. The folks who "pulled the lever" for him did so for various and sundry reasons, including some members of my nuclear family. I get that.
If you live to be my ripe age, you will surely evolve politically over time if you have not already done so. I have, and may do so again. Out of thirteen elections, I can humbly admit that there is definitely one vote I wish I could take back. (Not that my single vote swung that election.) And if my preferred candidate is not on the ballot, I will write him or her in. I wrote in Ralph Nader in 1996 because he wasn't on the ballot in my home state. (Even at his advanced age, Nader can still run circles around any "competition.")
I actually agree with James Howard Kunstler's characterization of the "winner" of this past presidential election as the designated "bag-holder." There is another crisis headed our way, and I hope that Trump has the wherewithal to "meet the moment." There's simply to much at stake for him to fail. (See Kunstler's blog post today if you care to.)
As for what passes for "wit," would you not concede that wit, like beauty, is in "the eye of the beholder"? I thought Mae West was witty. Lenny Bruce and George Carlin, too. Even Frank Zappa. For those of us who appreciate nuance, you have to love a musician who, when asked by a presumptuous interviewer, "Are you a hippie?" simply replies with a wry smirk, "Hippie? No, but always a freak."
If you feel that I have nitpicked you before, I apologize, as I usually attempt to make my replies more substantive, and definitely hope to avoid making ad hominen attacks. Too much of that already here. It's the only reason I withdraw from this forum at times. At my age, I have some "fight" left in me, but I'm reserving what little energy I have left for the bigger battles that I suspect are yet to come.
RE: I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT! - Kinser79 - 03-10-2017
(03-10-2017, 01:04 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:(03-10-2017, 03:32 AM)Galen Wrote:(03-09-2017, 08:39 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:(03-09-2017, 02:16 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Excellent. This is the new America that SomeGuy, Kinser, Galen, bobc, Bronsin, and all you other conservative Trumpsters want. If you manage to stem the demographic tide with your border controls, and your assaults on democracy, then we'll have little choice besides one form of bluexit or another.
I can't speak for the others, but I've been saying that the US is to large to be properly governed for decades. Yes the Blue states should go. Go and form their own countries. Everyone will be better off. Maybe we can deport all the decrepit morons invading Florida from New York. Could be worse though I understand AZ is being invaded by aging hippies which has to be worse.
I wish you guys would hurry up and get on with leaving then. I will be happy to see California go and it should be fun to see them implode their own economy.
Dude, you're in Oregon. If devolution happens you are not going to be on the Red side unless you move.
I think you missed his point. California's politics is driven by a philosophy of high taxes and giving away "free shit". Other countries tried that. Venezuela comes to mind. I hear rat is a delicacy in in Caracas these days. I'm waiting for an outbreak of bubonic plague there actually. I hear there are new strains poping up that are resistant to antibiotics