(02-06-2017, 12:21 PM)tg63 Wrote:

(02-02-2017, 01:49 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: Well in the case of OR and WA they would simply revert to (British) Columbia. Since there would no longer be a need to distinguish the part of the former Columbia Territory north of 49N, the whole province could just be called Columbia. Realistically, though, since the most populated province is Ontario, and even so, is less populated than any one of the  three states, we'd have to subdivide the west coast into several new provinces in order to maintain order.

umm, we have a few more folks in Ontario than Washington & Oregon ... combined ...

Ontario: 13.6M
Washington: 7.17
Oregon: 4.03

but hey, we're super polite up here, however y'all want to split things up would be okay with us.

(02-06-2017, 11:43 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: NO DEAL. We'll get Alberta, and with the help of its state government, we'll shut the whole crap dirty oil machine down. No deal without Alberta!

And sorry, we are not dealing with Drump, so no artful deals.

(02-06-2017, 10:19 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(02-06-2017, 12:21 PM)tg63 Wrote:

(02-02-2017, 01:49 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: Well in the case of OR and WA they would simply revert to (British) Columbia. Since there would no longer be a need to distinguish the part of the former Columbia Territory north of 49N, the whole province could just be called Columbia. Realistically, though, since the most populated province is Ontario, and even so, is less populated than any one of the  three states, we'd have to subdivide the west coast into several new provinces in order to maintain order.

umm, we have a few more folks in Ontario than Washington & Oregon ... combined ...

Ontario: 13.6M
Washington: 7.17
Oregon: 4.03

but hey, we're super polite up here, however y'all want to split things up would be okay with us.

Can we do a "The Art of The Deal" thingie? Let's trade [CA,OR,WA] for Alberta,Northwest Territories, and Yukon. I don't think Alberta wants its oil sand operation shutdown, and lots of mining in Yukon/Northwest Territories.  I know for sure California and mining don't play nice.

Mine Details
Commodity:  Gold
Location:  Canada, Yukon
Terms:  For Lease, For Sale, Joint Venture, Lease Purchase Option, Negotiable
Price:  $495,000. USD

Contact Seller






Northwest territories sample:

earthshots.usgs.gov/earthshots/node/63#ad-image-0


So, essentially, here's the idea of a swap.

US gets minerals while Canada gets high tech/Hollywood crapolla.  Yes, the high tech stuff is valuable, but think of it as an inducement for the US to chuck off Hollywood.  We don't want those self righteous wahoo primadonas  anymore.  Please, please take 'em away.
!

(02-06-2017, 11:54 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(02-06-2017, 11:43 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: NO DEAL. We'll get Alberta, and with the help of its state government, we'll shut the whole crap dirty oil machine down. No deal without Alberta!

And sorry, we are not dealing with Drump, so no artful deals.

OK, then I suppose Dan can shut this thread down.  No deal = no Calexit.   That's 'cause I'm the one who set up the deal, not Trump. That means California can continue to send $ Oklahoma's way. You see, I'm dealing for Oklahoma's sake. It's an exchange of slush $ California to Oklahoma for Oil transport from Alberta through Oklahoma to the Texas refinery complex. Like I said, I'm the one who is engineering this deal, not Trump, man.

(02-07-2017, 05:17 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-06-2017, 11:54 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(02-06-2017, 11:43 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: NO DEAL. We'll get Alberta, and with the help of its state government, we'll shut the whole crap dirty oil machine down. No deal without Alberta!

And sorry, we are not dealing with Drump, so no artful deals.

OK, then I suppose Dan can shut this thread down.  No deal = no Calexit.   That's 'cause I'm the one who set up the deal, not Trump. That means California can continue to send $ Oklahoma's way. You see, I'm dealing for Oklahoma's sake. It's an exchange of slush $ California to Oklahoma for Oil transport from Alberta through Oklahoma to the Texas refinery complex. Like I said, I'm the one who is engineering this deal, not Trump, man.

No, *I* set up this thread, so it's MY deal

Okies need to be forced to fend for themselves, if they want oil. Canada/Pacifica understand that we don't need it, and that it's wrong to even use it. We need to transition out of it. The red states don't get that; this is a major reason for Calexit. If we join Canada, then we can maybe get Canada to shut the whole tar sands disaster down, man!

(02-07-2017, 05:34 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

(02-07-2017, 05:17 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-06-2017, 11:54 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(02-06-2017, 11:43 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: NO DEAL. We'll get Alberta, and with the help of its state government, we'll shut the whole crap dirty oil machine down. No deal without Alberta!

And sorry, we are not dealing with Drump, so no artful deals.

OK, then I suppose Dan can shut this thread down.  No deal = no Calexit.   That's 'cause I'm the one who set up the deal, not Trump. That means California can continue to send $ Oklahoma's way. You see, I'm dealing for Oklahoma's sake. It's an exchange of slush $ California to Oklahoma for Oil transport from Alberta through Oklahoma to the Texas refinery complex. Like I said, I'm the one who is engineering this deal, not Trump, man.

No, *I* set up this thread, so it's MY deal

Okies need to be forced to fend for themselves, if they want oil. Canada/Pacifica understand that we don't need it, and that it's wrong to even use it. We need to transition out of it. The red states don't get that; this is a major reason for Calexit. If we join Canada, then we can maybe get Canada to shut the whole tar sands disaster down, man!

Which would probably spur a secessionist movement in Alberta, and maybe a couple of other provinces.  One is already semi-active.  Canada is a real country with its own politics and divisions, not a liberal fantasy land.

Quote:Why did Alberta vote for a liberal governor recently then?

Quote:True, not a fantasy land; just marginally sane, like California. As opposed to insane, like most American red states. If Canada were fully sane and liberal, it would just shut down the horrific tar sands itself, NOW!

(02-07-2017, 05:44 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

Quote:Why did Alberta vote for a liberal governor recently then?

Why did Massachusetts vote for a Republican governor recently, then?

Quote:

Quote:True, not a fantasy land; just marginally sane, like California. As opposed to insane, like most American red states. If Canada were fully sane and liberal, it would just shut down the horrific tar sands itself, NOW!

They probably have a reason for it.  Might even be political.

(02-07-2017, 05:17 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-06-2017, 11:54 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(02-06-2017, 11:43 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: NO DEAL. We'll get Alberta, and with the help of its state government, we'll shut the whole crap dirty oil machine down. No deal without Alberta!

And sorry, we are not dealing with Drump, so no artful deals.

OK, then I suppose Dan can shut this thread down.  No deal = no Calexit.   That's 'cause I'm the one who set up the deal, not Trump. That means California can continue to send $ Oklahoma's way. You see, I'm dealing for Oklahoma's sake. It's an exchange of slush $ California to Oklahoma for Oil transport from Alberta through Oklahoma to the Texas refinery complex. Like I said, I'm the one who is engineering this deal, not Trump, man.

No, *I* set up this thread, so it's MY deal

Okies need to be forced to fend for themselves, if they want oil. Canada/Pacifica understand that we don't need it, and that it's wrong to even use it. We need to transition out of it. The red states don't get that; this is a major reason for Calexit. If we join Canada, then we can maybe get Canada to shut the whole tar sands disaster down, man!

Quote:Probably a fairly liberal MA governor, elected in an off-year, Republican-wave election in which young Americans don't vote.

Quote:But it just goes to show, you can't be so sure that Alberta is as right-wing as North Dakota or Kansas.

Quote:They would have good reason to shut it down (yes). And I even think the new liberal governor wanted that. Apparently the national leadership still thinks money is more important than the environment.

So, no liberal fantasy land there. They murdered minks too for a while. It's just better than the red USA, that's all. No immigration frenzy, no aversion to national health care, no militarism, no religious right, willingness to support alt energy, etc.

(02-07-2017, 06:22 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

Quote:Probably a fairly liberal MA governor, elected in an off-year, Republican-wave election in which young Americans don't vote.

And the Albertans just elected the first Liberal premier ever, and the first non-PCP governor in more than 40 years.  The three parties in the running were two conservative and one liberal.  I wouldn't read too much into it just yet.

Quote:

Quote:But it just goes to show, you can't be so sure that Alberta is as right-wing as North Dakota or Kansas.

I don't have to, I just have to think that it isn't as liberal as California.

Quote:

Quote:They would have good reason to shut it down (yes). And I even think the new liberal governor wanted that. Apparently the national leadership still thinks money is more important than the environment.

So, no liberal fantasy land there. They murdered minks too for a while. It's just better than the red USA, that's all. No immigration frenzy, no aversion to national health care, no militarism, no religious right, willingness to support alt energy, etc.

You spend a lot of time IN Canada, per chance?

(02-07-2017, 06:04 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(02-07-2017, 05:17 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-06-2017, 11:54 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(02-06-2017, 11:43 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: NO DEAL. We'll get Alberta, and with the help of its state government, we'll shut the whole crap dirty oil machine down. No deal without Alberta!

And sorry, we are not dealing with Drump, so no artful deals.

OK, then I suppose Dan can shut this thread down.  No deal = no Calexit.   That's 'cause I'm the one who set up the deal, not Trump. That means California can continue to send $ Oklahoma's way. You see, I'm dealing for Oklahoma's sake. It's an exchange of slush $ California to Oklahoma for Oil transport from Alberta through Oklahoma to the Texas refinery complex. Like I said, I'm the one who is engineering this deal, not Trump, man.

No, *I* set up this thread, so it's MY deal

Okies need to be forced to fend for themselves, if they want oil. Canada/Pacifica understand that we don't need it, and that it's wrong to even use it. We need to transition out of it. The red states don't get that; this is a major reason for Calexit. If we join Canada, then we can maybe get Canada to shut the whole tar sands disaster down, man!

Uh, no.  Canada is a sovereign nation, regardless of how lots of Americans think of it as the 51st state. The same goes for the several provinces as well. That means if pieces of the west coast states decide to join Canada, then it's only fair to extend the same privileges to Canada/its provinces.  I accept said sovereignty in my deal, which makes it much better for Canada. As for Oklahoma, California's exit opens up all sorts of money making possibilities that I'm OK with. I'm sure we can make money hand over fist by accepting nuclear waste, pyrolysis plants for toxic waste reformulation, etc. Desperate times call for desperate measures!

http://wastepyrolysisplant.net/  <-  huge new oil source
http://www.oecd-nea.org/trw/index.html  <-  source for expensive nuclides, like Tc99

(02-07-2017, 08:31 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-07-2017, 06:04 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(02-07-2017, 05:17 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-06-2017, 11:54 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(02-06-2017, 11:43 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: NO DEAL. We'll get Alberta, and with the help of its state government, we'll shut the whole crap dirty oil machine down. No deal without Alberta!

And sorry, we are not dealing with Drump, so no artful deals.

OK, then I suppose Dan can shut this thread down.  No deal = no Calexit.   That's 'cause I'm the one who set up the deal, not Trump. That means California can continue to send $ Oklahoma's way. You see, I'm dealing for Oklahoma's sake. It's an exchange of slush $ California to Oklahoma for Oil transport from Alberta through Oklahoma to the Texas refinery complex. Like I said, I'm the one who is engineering this deal, not Trump, man.

No, *I* set up this thread, so it's MY deal

Okies need to be forced to fend for themselves, if they want oil. Canada/Pacifica understand that we don't need it, and that it's wrong to even use it. We need to transition out of it. The red states don't get that; this is a major reason for Calexit. If we join Canada, then we can maybe get Canada to shut the whole tar sands disaster down, man!

Uh, no.  Canada is a sovereign nation, regardless of how lots of Americans think of it as the 51st state. The same goes for the several provinces as well. That means if pieces of the west coast states decide to join Canada, then it's only fair to extend the same privileges to Canada/its provinces.  I accept said sovereignty in my deal, which makes it much better for Canada. As for Oklahoma, California's exit opens up all sorts of money making possibilities that I'm OK with. I'm sure we can make money hand over fist by accepting nuclear waste, pyrolysis plants for toxic waste reformulation, etc. Desperate times call for desperate measures!

http://wastepyrolysisplant.net/  <-  huge new oil source
http://www.oecd-nea.org/trw/index.html  <-  source for expensive nuclides, like Tc99

Yes, it might be desparate. They may want to declare war on California to keep us in the union, or invade Canada and take Alberta. Who knows.

But if Okies got real concerned, perhaps they could if they chose wake up and go for alternative energy. Wind is a big resource there. Okies don't HAVE to remain in the dark ages. They are just choosing to right now. If we leave and red America is forced to live without as much money and live on its own corrupt and bankrupt values, then they can see for themselves that their trickle-down xenophobia doesn't work.

It would not be a good deal for them, for parts of Canada to go red and go back to the dark ages. Canadians even in Alberta will not like that. They probably like having health insurance, a modicum of gun control, education that is public and not religiously owned and operated, and not being part of a militarist country that likes wars of choice and votes for presidents that cater to Russia, a country that pollutes itself and denies climate change; etc.etc.; they might not like to join this wacked out red America.

And especially if the northeast decides to join the West and petition to join Canada too. Canada would be the powerhouse of North America; look at all the brilliant immigrants who come to Atlantis/Pacifica/Canada! They start 3 times more businesses than so-called natives already. And Atlantis/Pacifica/Canada will welcome these immigrants, while (T)Rump America builds walls to keep them all out. We will crush you economically, and you'll soon be crying for us to come home.

I'd say if America doesn't turn around big time and throw out these fascist wackos soon, the new colossus of the North will be a welcome sight to Canadians and coastal Americans alike! Trumpland is a pariah already; a disgraceful excuse for a non-entity. And day by day, so far, Calexit and Pacific/Atlantic Exit grows more and more attractive. I'd give it a few years for the USA to wake up and throw the bums out and go left. After that, if Trump/Ryan is the direction we're going even after 40 years of its failure, then there's no hope. We'll have to leave you guys to your own devices, and whether it's legal for us to go or not; won't matter. We'll just declare it so, and say bye bye. By executive orders!

(02-07-2017, 08:31 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: <snip>
Uh, no.  Canada is a sovereign nation, regardless of how lots of Americans think of it as the 51st state. The same goes for the several provinces as well. That means if pieces of the west coast states decide to join Canada, then it's only fair to extend the same privileges to Canada/its provinces.  I accept said sovereignty in my deal, which makes it much better for Canada. As for Oklahoma, California's exit opens up all sorts of money making possibilities that I'm OK with. I'm sure we can make money hand over fist by accepting nuclear waste, pyrolysis plants for toxic waste reformulation, etc. Desperate times call for desperate measures!

http://wastepyrolysisplant.net/  <-  huge new oil source
http://www.oecd-nea.org/trw/index.html  <-  source for expensive nuclides, like Tc99

Yes, it might be desparate. They may want to declare war on California to keep us in the union, or invade Canada and take Alberta. Who knows.

But if Okies got real concerned, perhaps they could if they chose wake up and go for alternative energy. Wind is a big resource there. Okies don't HAVE to remain in the dark ages. They are just choosing to right now. If we leave and red America is forced to live without as much money and live on its own corrupt and bankrupt values, then they can see for themselves that their trickle-down xenophobia doesn't work.

It would not be a good deal for them, for parts of Canada to go red and go back to the dark ages. Canadians even in Alberta will not like that. They probably like having health insurance, a modicum of gun control, education that is public and not religiously owned and operated, and not being part of a militarist country that likes wars of choice and votes for presidents that cater to Russia, a country that pollutes itself and denies climate change; etc.etc.; they might not like to join this wacked out red America.

And especially if the northeast decides to join the West and petition to join Canada too. Canada would be the powerhouse of North America; look at all the brilliant immigrants who come to Atlantis/Pacifica/Canada! They start 3 times more businesses than so-called natives already. And Atlantis/Pacifica/Canada will welcome these immigrants, while (T)Rump America builds walls to keep them all out. We will crush you economically, and you'll soon be crying for us to come home.

I'd say if America doesn't turn around big time and throw out these fascist wackos soon, the new colossus of the North will be a welcome sight to Canadians and coastal Americans alike! Trumpland is a pariah already; a disgraceful excuse for a non-entity. And day by day, so far, Calexit and Pacific/Atlantic Exit grows more and more attractive. I'd give it a few years for the USA to wake up and throw the bums out and go left. After that, if Trump/Ryan is the direction we're going even after 40 years of its failure, then there's no hope. We'll have to leave you guys to your own devices, and whether it's legal for us to go or not; won't matter. We'll just declare it so, and say bye bye. By executive orders!

(02-07-2017, 08:45 PM)Marypoza Wrote: <snip Eric verbiage>
-- declaring war on CA, invading Canada? What is this, f-ing South Park?  

(02-07-2017, 10:09 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(02-07-2017, 08:31 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: <snip>
Uh, no.  Canada is a sovereign nation, regardless of how lots of Americans think of it as the 51st state. The same goes for the several provinces as well. That means if pieces of the west coast states decide to join Canada, then it's only fair to extend the same privileges to Canada/its provinces.  I accept said sovereignty in my deal, which makes it much better for Canada. As for Oklahoma, California's exit opens up all sorts of money making possibilities that I'm OK with. I'm sure we can make money hand over fist by accepting nuclear waste, pyrolysis plants for toxic waste reformulation, etc. Desperate times call for desperate measures!

http://wastepyrolysisplant.net/  <-  huge new oil source
http://www.oecd-nea.org/trw/index.html  <-  source for expensive nuclides, like Tc99

Yes, it might be desparate. They may want to declare war on California to keep us in the union, or invade Canada and take Alberta. Who knows.

But if Okies got real concerned, perhaps they could if they chose wake up and go for alternative energy. Wind is a big resource there. Okies don't HAVE to remain in the dark ages. They are just choosing to right now. If we leave and red America is forced to live without as much money and live on its own corrupt and bankrupt values, then they can see for themselves that their trickle-down xenophobia doesn't work.

It would not be a good deal for them, for parts of Canada to go red and go back to the dark ages. Canadians even in Alberta will not like that. They probably like having health insurance, a modicum of gun control, education that is public and not religiously owned and operated, and not being part of a militarist country that likes wars of choice and votes for presidents that cater to Russia, a country that pollutes itself and denies climate change; etc.etc.; they might not like to join this wacked out red America.

And especially if the northeast decides to join the West and petition to join Canada too. Canada would be the powerhouse of North America; look at all the brilliant immigrants who come to Atlantis/Pacifica/Canada! They start 3 times more businesses than so-called natives already. And Atlantis/Pacifica/Canada will welcome these immigrants, while (T)Rump America builds walls to keep them all out. We will crush you economically, and you'll soon be crying for us to come home.

I'd say if America doesn't turn around big time and throw out these fascist wackos soon, the new colossus of the North will be a welcome sight to Canadians and coastal Americans alike! Trumpland is a pariah already; a disgraceful excuse for a non-entity. And day by day, so far, Calexit and Pacific/Atlantic Exit grows more and more attractive. I'd give it a few years for the USA to wake up and throw the bums out and go left. After that, if Trump/Ryan is the direction we're going even after 40 years of its failure, then there's no hope. We'll have to leave you guys to your own devices, and whether it's legal for us to go or not; won't matter. We'll just declare it so, and say bye bye. By executive orders!

1.  Lots of stuff written.... You taking something?

Quote:2. Welcome immigrants?  OK, So there's no limit? No borders?  That's a disaster in the making. Obviously, there are very real limits to the carrying capacity of any country. I will give you this though.  The raunchy religious idiot fundies we have possess hangups over birth control. So to keep away from population overshoot you have to control both.  I think the US has too many people already given the reality of global warming [yes, another hangup around here.]  Here's the problem, if we humans do not voluntarily control our numbers, mother nature will by the usual means [warfare,disease,famine].  So I choose the former since it's far less unpleasant. Likewise, multiculturalism is a mirage. Sorry, nations need a set of values and other commonalities to keep from flying apart in a fratricidal paroxysm. I refer you to the former Yugoslavia and Iraq as to how well multiculturalism works. I'll defer you to square the circle of "brilliant" immigrants. So on that, OK go for it. Let 'em all in and blow through your water and food.
After that, comes the deluge of fratricide.

Quote:3. Yes on public education as the default, and again not run by fundie freaks. Creationism is bogus. Enough said.
4. Wind power, sure, but the question of base load has to be taken into account. Renewables just aren't quit there yet. They may get that way with some sort of new battery or other storage, but we're not there yet.

Quote:5. pyrolysis plants: You might think they're yucky , but they're not really. They make a fantastic way to suck a lot of endocrine disrupter laden plastic and convert that stuff back into oil. The same goes for old tires.
6. Tc-99 is running in short supply. Get it from atomic waste or new nuclear plants?

Quote:7. The "trickle down stuff" is actually a mix of neoliberalism/crony capitalism by another name. Well if the split up happens, the military protection of the trading routes just goes poof. So yeah, you lucky guy, you unearthed another mechanism for the neoliberal order to collapse. In reality, neoliberalism sows the seeds of its own destruction. Death by demand gaps or military collapse ala Soviet style.  Either way is just awesome man.   After all, Trump's a symptom of neoliberal economics going off the rails?  Thought about that one , Eric?

Quote:8. That leads to external economics.  I think the neoliberal system's collapse would take the dollar with it. It's gonna happen anyway, so whatever.
9. Dark ages:  May be on the way anyhow.  The way we humans waste antibiotics and the other stuff could make it so. There's always a dark age sometime in the future. That even goes for Canada or whatever you call the new thingie.

(02-07-2017, 01:52 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(02-06-2017, 10:19 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(02-06-2017, 12:21 PM)tg63 Wrote:

(02-02-2017, 01:49 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: Well in the case of OR and WA they would simply revert to (British) Columbia. Since there would no longer be a need to distinguish the part of the former Columbia Territory north of 49N, the whole province could just be called Columbia. Realistically, though, since the most populated province is Ontario, and even so, is less populated than any one of the  three states, we'd have to subdivide the west coast into several new provinces in order to maintain order.

umm, we have a few more folks in Ontario than Washington & Oregon ... combined ...

Ontario: 13.6M
Washington: 7.17
Oregon: 4.03

but hey, we're super polite up here, however y'all want to split things up would be okay with us.

Can we do a "The Art of The Deal" thingie? Let's trade [CA,OR,WA] for Alberta,Northwest Territories, and Yukon. I don't think Alberta wants its oil sand operation shutdown, and lots of mining in Yukon/Northwest Territories.  I know for sure California and mining don't play nice.

Mine Details
Commodity:  Gold
Location:  Canada, Yukon
Terms:  For Lease, For Sale, Joint Venture, Lease Purchase Option, Negotiable
Price:  $495,000. USD

Contact Seller






Northwest territories sample:

earthshots.usgs.gov/earthshots/node/63#ad-image-0


So, essentially, here's the idea of a swap.

US gets minerals while Canada gets high tech/Hollywood crapolla.  Yes, the high tech stuff is valuable, but think of it as an inducement for the US to chuck off Hollywood.  We don't want those self righteous wahoo primadonas  anymore.  Please, please take 'em away.
!

-- it would make the United States contiguous