What the left has devolved to. - Printable Version +- Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory (http://generational-theory.com/forum) +-- Forum: Fourth Turning Forums (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-1.html) +--- Forum: Current Events (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-34.html) +---- Forum: General Political Discussion (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-15.html) +---- Thread: What the left has devolved to. (/thread-661.html) |
RE: What the left has devolved to. - SomeGuy - 02-02-2017 (02-02-2017, 07:51 AM)Odin Wrote:Quote:Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal. Emphasis mine. I must have missed the brownshirts those antifas were bravely fighting against. Perhaps they were holed up in the Starbucks? RE: What the left has devolved to. - SomeGuy - 02-02-2017 I'm gonna vote yes, and yes. RE: What the left has devolved to. - Bob Butler 54 - 02-02-2017 (02-02-2017, 01:58 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:(02-02-2017, 02:59 AM)Galen Wrote: Here is what the left devolved into. Perhaps it is appropriate and ironic that free speech should be opposed so violently in the place where the Free Speech movement got started. Here is how one person planning to attend Milo's speech was treated. Are the extreme partisans of the right on the right, and on the left of the left? I would say yes. Can one attribute and associate all of the beliefs of the far extremes to everyone on their side? Absolutely not. I didn't start any fires at Berkeley. I know of no contributors here spouting the same sort of rhetoric as Yiannopoulos. There are variations and intensities of belief on both the left and right. The notion of all folk on one side or the other as being alike and embracing the extreme extreme is absurd. RE: What the left has devolved to. - SomeGuy - 02-02-2017 Quote:Regarding Black Bloc or more properly, instigators who appear to be Black Bloc, I offer the following: Is there anything you don't blame on the Russians? RE: What the left has devolved to. - SomeGuy - 02-02-2017 (02-02-2017, 02:51 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:(02-02-2017, 02:32 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:Quote:Regarding Black Bloc or more properly, instigators who appear to be Black Bloc, I offer the following: Maybe I'm a Russian agent, sent to keep you from mobilizing the resistance? RE: What the left has devolved to. - Classic-Xer - 02-02-2017 (02-02-2017, 11:41 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:I assume that you are aware that rhetoric can easily turn into violence. I assume that you are aware that rhetoric can also be used to insight violence. Do blues (the Democrats in general) have the ability to boldly confront/staunchly turn against the improper use of rhetoric that's viewed as being politically associated with them, so to speak. At what point does the Democratic party stop being viewed by Americans as being a party of vote whores/ white hate merchants and stop using our federal funds as a means to pacify dangerous/radical groups within their social ranks?(02-02-2017, 11:08 AM)SomeGuy Wrote: Speech, riot, they're basically the same thing, right? Both sides equally at fault? RE: What the left has devolved to. - SomeGuy - 02-02-2017 Quote:I just love chipping away the stereotypes which people try to build up between each other! Destroying everything they have worked so hard to build. Cruel, cruel woman. You Millies really have no respect for other's property, do you? RE: What the left has devolved to. - Bob Butler 54 - 02-02-2017 (02-02-2017, 03:01 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I assume that you are aware that rhetoric can easily turn into violence. Oh, yes. (02-02-2017, 03:01 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I assume that you are aware that rhetoric can also be used to insight violence. Oh, yes. Recently demonstrated. (02-02-2017, 03:01 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Do blues (the Democrats in general) have the ability to boldly confront/staunchly turn against the improper use of rhetoric that's viewed as being politically associated with them, so to speak. The ability, yes. Some of them even do it. For example, Berkeley apparently was the origin place of a free speech movement. Some of the Berkeley people were particularly upset at the recent incident, denouncing the flame throwers quite clearly and vehemently. Not that everyone noticed. The flame throwers got more attention. (02-02-2017, 03:01 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: At what point does the Democratic party stop being viewed by Americans as being a party of vote whores/ white hate merchants and stop using our federal funds as a means to pacify dangerous/radical groups within their social ranks? Do you have any evidence that the Black Crew is federally funded? At least, this seems to be what you are suggesting. If so, I would expect Trump to issue an executive order telling them to stop. I don't see Americans viewing the Democrats that way. I see certain red leaning extreme partisans obsessed with vile stereotypes viewing Democrats that way. I've been trying to get extreme partisans to drop their vile stereotypes, to stop casually confusing their vile stereotypes with Truth, with little to no effect. Extreme partisans are extreme partisans, and will wallow in their own hate and lies. Not much I can do about such irrational hatred. And, yes, that sort of thing can lead to violence. RE: What the left has devolved to. - Bob Butler 54 - 02-02-2017 (02-02-2017, 03:14 PM)taramarie Wrote: Exactly. You take every single person who is a blue voter or red voter and shove them into a box it is not going to fit. You also in the process are: I generally agree with the above. The point one shouldn't miss is that an awful lot of the extreme partisans - red, blue, and any other color you might care to name - actually believe the stuff they spout. They believe it with values locked intensity. As questioning the vile stereotypes would require them to question many of their core values, their vile stereotypes will stand as if set in stone. The vile stereotypes might be understood in part as a defense mechanism that prevents them from having to look at reality with open eyes. RE: What the left has devolved to. - SomeGuy - 02-02-2017 (02-02-2017, 03:39 PM)nihilist moron Wrote: The Left will need to work a lot harder if they don't want to be associated with firestarters, walking vaginas, and Madonna. You repeat yourself. RE: What the left has devolved to. - Galen - 02-02-2017 (02-02-2017, 12:40 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: I must have missed the brownshirt those antifas were bravely fighting against. Perhaps they were holed up in the Starbucks? Maybe they were hiding in the ATMs they smashed. RE: What the left has devolved to. - Classic-Xer - 02-02-2017 (02-02-2017, 03:18 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:I view the Democrats that way because that's how they come across to me and their politics come across to me. In my case, the Democrats have earned whatever vile stereotype that I've placed on them. You haven't figured this out yet. You haven't figured that you've been directly engaging with a hard core American for years. An American who has been judging you, your opinions, your actions or lack of actions, your social tolerances and the fundamental strengths of your values and beliefs as a so-called blue voter. An American who doesn't doesn't give a crap about your race, your gender, your ethnic heritage or whatever the Democrats view as being most valuable to themselves vote wise/blue community wise at election time.(02-02-2017, 03:01 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I assume that you are aware that rhetoric can easily turn into violence. RE: What the left has devolved to. - Eric the Green - 02-02-2017 Strange, the local news called the ones who broke windows and set fire to a light generator or whatever it was, "black rock." But the definition of Black Bloc appears to indicate that it's a tactic or a costume, not a group. RE: What the left has devolved to. - Eric the Green - 02-02-2017 (02-02-2017, 04:04 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:(02-02-2017, 03:18 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:I view the Democrats that way because that's how they come across to me and their politics come across to me. In my case, the Democrats have earned whatever vile stereotype that I've placed on them. You haven't figured this out yet. You haven't figured that you've been directly engaging with a hard core American for years. An American who has been judging you, your opinions, your actions or lack of actions, your social tolerances and the fundamental strengths of your values and beliefs as a so-called blue voter. An American who doesn't doesn't give a crap about your race, your gender, your ethnic heritage or whatever the Democrats view as being most valuable to themselves vote wise/blue community wise at election time.(02-02-2017, 03:01 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I assume that you are aware that rhetoric can easily turn into violence. I as a liberal and sometime Democratic voter (and I suspect most like me) would not agree that your ideas and values are "American," and ours are not. What for you is a "hard core American?" Do such Americans have a certain racial or religious heritage? What do they believe to be American, as opposed to what "blue voters" believe to be American? RE: What the left has devolved to. - Warren Dew - 02-02-2017 (02-02-2017, 05:26 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Look how quiet America was when Barack Obama was President. The Tea Party Movement took much longer to develop than has the mass rallies that oppose "The Donald". There are plenty of issues to protest about when an unjust ruler insists that he is the supposed arbiter of truth for all time. Il Duce ha sempre raggione... Der Fuehrer hat immer rechts.... The Tea Party movement's first big demonstration - much bigger than this one - was in April 2009. That was longer, yes, but only because Obama was more circumspect about his real agenda. I grant that the Tea Party protests never got violent. That's just because conservatives prefer not to resort to violence, and prefer to use the ballot box instead. RE: What the left has devolved to. - SomeGuy - 02-02-2017 (02-02-2017, 04:49 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:(02-02-2017, 03:00 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:(02-02-2017, 02:51 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:(02-02-2017, 02:32 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:Quote:Regarding Black Bloc or more properly, instigators who appear to be Black Bloc, I offer the following: Funny, I was going to say the same thing about you. Come to think of it, I just did. You've already talked about being fixated on the "Russian threat" since at least 1999. So it's not really something I would characterize as being driven by current events. RE: What the left has devolved to. - Eric the Green - 02-02-2017 (02-02-2017, 04:34 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:(02-02-2017, 05:26 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Look how quiet America was when Barack Obama was President. The Tea Party Movement took much longer to develop than has the mass rallies that oppose "The Donald". There are plenty of issues to protest about when an unjust ruler insists that he is the supposed arbiter of truth for all time. Il Duce ha sempre raggione... Der Fuehrer hat immer rechts.... There were threats of violence at least at Tea Party events. But it does appear that the fringe violent element on the Left shows up more often in leftist demonstrations than the right fringe elements show up in rallies of the Tea Party. They also showed up in 1999 at the mostly-peaceful anti-WTO rallies (The Battle in Seattle). Left demonstrators (like those at Occupy a few years ago) also tend to be more disillusioned with the ballot box these days, even though they are mostly non-violent. After all, the right-wing is more effective at rigging elections these days. But you also have the right-wing militias, ready for action and threatening it in some cases. Right-wing terrorist attacks, such as in Oklahoma City in 1995, can be very deadly. The "women's march" was one of the biggest ever; vastly larger than any Tea Party rally, and no arrests made at them. And those rallies at airports were spectacular awakenings of true Americanism in the face of Trump's brash violations of everything the USA stands for. RE: What the left has devolved to. - Ragnarök_62 - 02-02-2017 (02-02-2017, 03:39 PM)nihilist moron Wrote: The Left will need to work a lot harder if they don't want to be associated with firestarters, walking vaginas, and Madonna. Dunno. Perhaps an investigation will link Soros to these Black Bloc punks . If so.... #CivilAssetForfeitrureSoros : Lots of dough to compensate the victims of his shit stirring and overtime pay for the cops. #ShutSorosDown There's no violence in doing that, right? RE: What the left has devolved to. - SomeGuy - 02-02-2017 (02-02-2017, 05:10 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:(02-02-2017, 03:39 PM)nihilist moron Wrote: The Left will need to work a lot harder if they don't want to be associated with firestarters, walking vaginas, and Madonna. What is he, 86? Shouldn't have too much longer. RE: What the left has devolved to. - Ragnarök_62 - 02-02-2017 (02-02-2017, 04:36 AM)taramarie Wrote: "Except, both sides don't. Only one side regularly attacks people from the other side, or resorts to burning things down." Citations please. |