The Post-ObamaCare World: Reality Check For Hypocrites?

[Anthony '58]

Ironically, the solution may lie with two conceptually libertarian reforms: The one Copperfield linked to, and legalizing marijuana, and then taxing it and using the revenue on charity care.

[Eric the Green]

(11-12-2016, 11:53 AM)Anthony 58 Wrote: Ironically, the solution may lie with two conceptually libertarian reforms: The one Copperfield linked to, and legalizing marijuana, and then taxing it and using the revenue on charity care.

California just voted for this, but the Feds may nullify it.

[Marypoza]

(11-12-2016, 02:48 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 11:53 AM)Anthony Wrote: Ironically, the solution may lie with two conceptually libertarian reforms: The one Copperfield linked to, and legalizing marijuana, and then taxing it and using the revenue on charity care.

California just voted for this, but the Feds may nullify it.

-- or not.. the Donald's position on on weed is to let the states deal with it however they want

[Eric the Green]

(11-12-2016, 03:44 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 02:48 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 11:53 AM)Anthony Wrote: Ironically, the solution may lie with two conceptually libertarian reforms: The one Copperfield linked to, and legalizing marijuana, and then taxing it and using the revenue on charity care.

California just voted for this, but the Feds may nullify it.

-- or not.. the Donald's position on on weed is to let the states deal with it however they want

Don't be too sure about this. The Donald is just one person; he may have to bend to the winds of his party both within the administration that he is appointing and in congress. He bends his positions all the time; he has virtually no ideas. The Donald would have to be a Democrat to do all that you expect. He is too dependent on the RNC that helped elect him to do that. No, the cheetorags that you denounce are right.

At least the TPP is dead already. That's one good thing. But a nation in permanent recession under Reaganoid Trumponomics can't be revived by one dead trade deal.

[Warren Dew]

(11-12-2016, 11:29 AM)Anthony Wrote: Face it.  On health care, and many other issues, federal government action has become impossible, and will remain impossible for literally decades.

So now it's time to talk about concentric lines of defense - the first line, obviously, being the state governments; but here the prospects are almost as dismal as on the federal level, in that Democrats hold both the governorship and both houses of the legislature in only six states (although if anyone other than Martha Coakley runs against Charlie Baker for governor of Massachusetts in 2018, that state is absolutely certain to become number seven).

Baker's approval ratings are sky high.  He's unlikely to be replaced in 2018 no matter what.

That said, Romneycare was passed under a Republican governor, so it doesn't require Democratic control to take state action.

Some good stuff in the rest of your post.

[Eric the Green]

Health care will be turned back over to the private sector. Before Obamacare, prices were rising so fact that business along with the people were crying for help and supported reform. When they got a measly, watered-down version of it through the DINO Senate, they turned on it as "socialism." Of course Galen believes that any "socialism" is treason (or whatever he calls it), so he denies what was the case before Obamacare, and what will be the case after it.

It's up to states like CA to insure their people. We'll see if we have the balls to do it, and if the Trumpfeds allow it. The United States of America now needs to be far less united. Blue states need to go their own way. I wonder if we can somehow pay less to the feds, since we will get no benefit from them anymore.

[Warren Dew]

(11-11-2016, 11:14 AM)playwrite Wrote:

(11-11-2016, 10:28 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(11-11-2016, 09:41 AM)playwrite Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 02:18 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(11-10-2016, 11:29 AM)Anthony Wrote: The repeal of the Affordable Care Act, aka ObamaCare, is now a fait accompli - conceivably as soon as January 21st, via the "budget reconciliation" process.

But where do we go from here?

To prevent what literally would be a humanitarian crisis, state and local governments, and private and religious charities, will have to do the right thing - and the latter two are especially key: Will George Soros, Tom Steyer etc. pitch in, by making massive donations to organizations like this - and will evangelicals prove that they are not slavish disciples of Ayn Rand and do their part?  (You can bet that the Catholic Church, especially under Pope Francis, will take a strong stand on this).

If either fail, they will be exposed for all the world to see as the worst sort of hypocrites.

With repeal they will implement a system where insurance companies are no longer state by state. They've been harping on "allow competition across state lines." OK, now they've got the ball. Let's see what's in the playbook, if anything.

Have you ever wondered why credit card interest rates remain in double digits even when all other credit tanks -

[img][/img]

It's because the banks have all headquartered their operations in Wilmington, Delaware, where former Governor Pierre DuPont purposely enticed them with relaxed regulations.

The only people who think that this will not happen with the insurance companies are Libertarians.

I  have literally made half my wealth by fading the Libertarian morons that have Zero Hedge as their updated Ayn Rand guru.  Taking their lunch money, over and over again, is entertaining.  Not so much fun, however, when their stupidity actually gets taken seriously within the government and the whole economy eventually takes the big hit from their stupidity (see the '00-00s).

Not sure which state will win the race to the bottom, but it will be a pretty big story on the business news channels.  It will be pitch as a big win for whatever state pulls it off; the rest of the country will be pretty F'd, however.  Obamacare was limited to a pretty narrow set of people - those poor enough to be on Medicaid and those in the lower Middle Class that could not get employer-based insurance.  A credit card-like centering of health insurers in the state with the most relaxed regulations will, however, impact the ENTIRE market.  I expect the costs will spell the end of employer-based health insurance.  I also expect the Libertarian morons to believe that is a good thing, just like unfettered bank subprime lending in the 00-00s.  I expect to substantially grow my personal wealth once again off these morons.

Actually the increase in credit card margins is due to capital restrictions implemented after the crash, and the fact that those capital restrictions limit the amount of lending banks can do.  The resulting shortage of money to be lent out resulted in excessive interest rates.

The gap is gradually being filled by other alternatives offered by companies in a better capital position, but it's a slow process.

Ah, I realize its hard to get through those over-stimulated amygdala you all seem to posses, and really, I've grown tired of it, and try to just take pleasure knowing how much of your lunch money I'm taking from you all in the markets.

But, for old time sakes, try taking a look at the graph again and see were you can pinpoint "the fact" that while credit card rates changed but slightly down while all other securities went way down, the expanding margin is instead based on horseshit (or, is it magic ponies again?).

I am always amazed how you guys can look at a house on fire and blame the firemen or car wreck and blame the tow truck driver.  It's weird, but it has been highly profitable to fade you. I guess I should just be thankful.

Credit card rates show an anomalous increase at the beginning of 2009 just after partial nationalization of 9 major U.S. banks, and in preparation for announced "stress tests" by regulators.  Your point?

[Marypoza]

(11-12-2016, 06:00 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 03:44 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 02:48 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 11:53 AM)Anthony Wrote: Ironically, the solution may lie with two conceptually libertarian reforms: The one Copperfield linked to, and legalizing marijuana, and then taxing it and using the revenue on charity care.

California just voted for this, but the Feds may nullify it.

-- or not.. the Donald's position on on weed is to let the states deal with it however they want

Don't be too sure about this. The Donald is just one person; he may have to bend to the winds of his party both within the administration that he is appointing and in congress. He bends his positions all the time; he has virtually no ideas. The Donald would have to be a Democrat to do all that you expect. He is too dependent on the RNC that helped elect him to do that. No, the cheetorags that you denounce are right.

At least the TPP is dead already. That's one good thing. But a nation in permanent recession under Reaganoid Trumponomics can't be revived by one dead trade deal.

--the Donald was a Dem.. until he decided to run 4 prez. Which is why l'm waiting to see how all this rolls & not going all out Chicken Little just yet. Besides l work the Secret, don't wanna put bad vibes out there

[Eric the Green]

(11-15-2016, 03:42 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 06:00 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 03:44 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 02:48 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 11:53 AM)Anthony Wrote: Ironically, the solution may lie with two conceptually libertarian reforms: The one Copperfield linked to, and legalizing marijuana, and then taxing it and using the revenue on charity care.

California just voted for this, but the Feds may nullify it.

-- or not.. the Donald's position on on weed is to let the states deal with it however they want

Don't be too sure about this. The Donald is just one person; he may have to bend to the winds of his party both within the administration that he is appointing and in congress. He bends his positions all the time; he has virtually no ideas. The Donald would have to be a Democrat to do all that you expect. He is too dependent on the RNC that helped elect him to do that. No, the cheetorags that you denounce are right.

At least the TPP is dead already. That's one good thing. But a nation in permanent recession under Reaganoid Trumponomics can't be revived by one dead trade deal.

--the Donald was a Dem.. until he decided to run 4 prez. Which is why l'm waiting to see how all this rolls & not going all out Chicken Little just yet. Besides l work the Secret, don't wanna put bad vibes out there

I understand that. I'm just feeling like I need to help take the wool from peoples' eyes, if I can. And remember again, he's just one guy, he doesn't have all the power. There's the congress and the people he's chosen and will be choosing as his advisors and cabinet. There's no hope for any of them, despite any amount of good vibes. Just removing some wool, that's all. I can pray too, but I don't put all my hopes into it. It's just too big, what's going on. Leopards don't change stripes, and neither do Republicans; sorry to say. But good luck; send some good vibes and positive thoughts to Paul Ryan and let me know how it works out. Maybe he'll see the light  

Interestingly, Trump was an avid student of the Power of Positive Thinking. It certainly worked for him. Will it work for America? Or do we also have to take account of some facts, too?

[The Wonkette]

(11-11-2016, 11:12 AM)noway2 Wrote:

(11-11-2016, 11:07 AM)Marypoza Wrote: Scuse me if this sounds lame, but what is so damn difficult about simply lowering the medicare age to 0?

On a similar note, I have often asked and never gotten a valid response to the question of: "why is everyone so focused on the answer to health care being insurance?"

Of course insurance is not health care. However, it allows you to pay for health care should you need expensive treatment. So of course everyone is focused on insurance.

[Ragnarök_62]

(11-11-2016, 11:14 AM)playwrite Wrote: [quote pid='12257' dateline='1478875298']

playwrite Wrote:Have you ever wondered why credit card interest rates remain in double digits even when all other credit tanks -

[img][/img]

It's because the banks have all headquartered their operations in Wilmington, Delaware, where former Governor Pierre DuPont purposely enticed them with relaxed regulations.

I haven't wondered. I just assume Big Banking is just one of several sets of grifters. In any event, I just have autopay set up 'cause 20+ percent interest is silly in ZIRP land for myself.  I gots me a Bank America card added 'cause only 1 credit card apparently wasn't enough to keep my FICO score above 810. Said card pays out 3% cash back on most stuff and 5% on gas.

Quote:The only people who think that this will not happen with the insurance companies are Libertarians.

Insurance should only be for taking care of random bad incidents like a tornado shredding your house. Health insurance as it's currently done is stupid. If house insurance were like health insurance, you file a claim to get a faucet fixed or a broken window fixed.  It's lame.

Quote:I  have literally made half my wealth by fading the Libertarian morons that have Zero Hedge as their updated Ayn Rand guru.

I go to Zero Hedge to read stuff panning idiots like special snowflakes myself.




Quick!  Da "lady" needs a binky.

Quote:Taking their lunch money, over and over again, is entertaining.

Please tell Paul Ryan this.  He wants to privatize SS.  It's lame of course since most of us :

1. Don't realize the churn fees start ringing up there.
2. There be dragons. Mr. market is , well, hard to figure out if you ain't a money manager.
3. Whadda about folks who outlive private funds?

Quote:  Not so much fun, however, when their stupidity actually gets taken seriously within the government and the whole economy eventually takes the big hit from their stupidity (see the '00-00s).

Now a Friskies diet ain't no fun either.

Quote:Not sure which state will win the race to the bottom, but it will be a pretty big story on the business news channels.  It will be pitch as a big win for whatever state pulls it off; the rest of the country will be pretty F'd,

But, but, it seems bullish for:    http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=NSRGY

Quote:however.  Obamacare was limited to a pretty narrow set of people - those poor enough to be on Medicaid and those in the lower Middle Class that could not get employer-based insurance.  A credit card-like centering of health insurers in the state with the most relaxed regulations will, however, impact the ENTIRE market.  I expect the costs will spell the end of employer-based health insurance.  I also expect the Libertarian morons to believe that is a good thing, just like unfettered bank subprime lending in the 00-00s.  I expect to substantially grow my personal wealth once again off these morons.

Yup.  Bullish on death industries.  Yeah, I know I'm being macabre, but it's true.
http://247wallst.com/investing/2011/01/1...-industry/

Quote:Actually the increase in credit card margins is due to capital restrictions implemented after the crash, and the fact that those capital restrictions limit the amount of lending banks can do.  The resulting shortage of money to be lent out resulted in excessive interest rates.

I thought QE = lots of excess reserves...

Quote:The gap is gradually being filled by other alternatives offered by companies in a better capital position, but it's a slow process.

Credit unions work well.

Quote:Ah, I realize its hard to get through those over-stimulated amygdala you all seem to posses, and really, I've grown tired of it, and try to just take pleasure knowing how much of your lunch money I'm taking from you all in the markets.

1. Ahem, that's amygdalae  , plural.

Quote:But, for old time sakes, try taking a look at the graph again and see were you can pinpoint "the fact" that while credit card rates changed but slightly down while all other securities went way down, the expanding margin is instead based on horseshit (or, is it magic ponies again?).

The use of credit cards as a source of borrowed money , not smart.

I prefer unicorns and rainbows for old time sake

Quote:I am always amazed how you guys can look at a house on fire and blame the firemen or car wreck and blame the tow truck driver.  It's weird, but it has been highly profitable to fade you. I guess I should just be thankful.

[/quote]

Uh, go long death and cat food?

[Anthony '58]

Quote:--the Donald was a Dem.. until he decided to run 4 prez. Which is why l'm waiting to see how all this rolls & not going all out Chicken Little just yet. Besides l work the Secret, don't wanna put bad vibes out there

There is always a chance that Trump will prove to be a "Trojan horse" from the right's perspective. There would have been absolutely no chance of either Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio being such a thing.

And apparently the "liberal" Atlantic agrees:

The Dangerous Myth That Hillary Clinton Ignored the Working Class

I'll cherry pick the most relevant part for you:

Trump’s white voters do support the mommy state, but only so long as it’s mothering them. Most of them don’t seem eager to change Medicare or Social Security, but they’re fine with repealing Obamacare and its more diverse pool of 20 million insured people. They’re happy for the government to pick winners and losers, so long as beleaguered coal and manufacturing companies are in the winner’s circle. Massive deficit-financed spending on infrastructure? Under Obama, that was dangerous government overreach, but under Trump, it’s a jobs plan by a guy they know won’t let Muslims and Mexicans cut in line to get work renovating highways and airports.

So Trump voters and Democratic voters can argue over who killed Social Darwinism in America - but the bottom line is that Social Darwinism in America is still dead.

[Eric the Green]

Social Darwinism has never been more alive and well, and the Darwinist in Chief is there to make it official policy.

[pbrower2a]

Because of Obamacare I got diagnosed with Asperger's. It is a distressing diagnosis, but it is one that I could have made adjustments to even as a teenager. over forty years ago. I would have made vastly different choices in education and career choice and avoided much failure, grief and undeserved shame, and some family problems at the end of the lives of some loved ones. I would have had some real independence had I been able to make money suited for personal independence.

Except that I know that something is wrong with my life and it is not the economic system or political order*, a poor work ethic, or some faulty character, I might have gone over the edge and committed suicide. Nobody gets out of a progressive depression easily.

*Donald Trump is not yet President, and he will be the problem of every American whatever ethnicity, religion, social class, region, religion, sexual orientation, handicap, or status of citizenship. I still expect four dreary years of him or Pence, but if this is what it takes to make Americans do some needful reforms that make government that serves the People instead of serving The People, it will be worth even a loss of 20% of living standards in the meantime and watching ruthless elites live like medieval princes.

[Anthony '58]

(12-10-2016, 05:53 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Social Darwinism has never been more alive and well, and the Darwinist in Chief is there to make it official policy.

Stop being a reverse McCarthyist - accusing everyone not left of center of being a Social Darwinist.

And if Trump does pull a William Howard Taft he won't be re-elected.

[Eric the Green]

(12-11-2016, 01:39 PM)Anthony Wrote:

(12-10-2016, 05:53 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Social Darwinism has never been more alive and well, and the Darwinist in Chief is there to make it official policy.

Stop being a reverse McCarthyist - accusing everyone not left of center of being a Social Darwinist.

And if Trump does pull a William Howard Taft he won't be re-elected.

Trump is clearly a Social Darwinist. He believes in survival of the fittest, and he's a racist and believer in genetics as determinative of superiority. These are clear in the appointments and proposals he is making to unleash laissez faire trickle-down economics on steroids and unleash the big business cabal as never before, and cut as many policies as possible that benefit the poor and middle class. His appointments are the worst ever proposed by a president-elect, and the most extremely right-wing and laissez faire/social darwinian ever.

I don't know what you mean by "pull a William Howard Taft." All he did was deviate a little from his sponsor's policies and make him mad. TR was something of a tempermental brat and he spoiled Taft's chance for re-election. Taft was a progressive; he did nothing to deserve his defeat. All Trump has to do to prove he's a Social Darwinist is to stay on the path he's on now.

[Anthony '58]

In 1908 William Howard Taft was Teddy Roosevelt's hand-picked successor, confident that Taft would continue TR's progressive policies. But then, when TR returned from his travels in Africa, he had discovered, to his horror, that Taft had sold out to the very interests that TR had spent seven years battling against. This caused TR to challenge Taft for the Republican nomination in 1912; and when Taft prevailed, for TR to run as an independent, essentially guaranteeing a Democratic victory in the general election.

Similarly, if Trump betrays the Rust Belt populists, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin will turn blue again just as fast as they turned red in this election, and Trump will lose, providing the Democrats don't nominate someone who is wilder than a March hare - a very distinct possibility. That is if Trump doesn't get beat in the Republican primary, in which case Trump, with his ego, would probably run for re-election as an independent, thereby exactly repeating the 1912 scenario.

[Odin]

(12-14-2016, 10:12 AM)Anthony Wrote: In 1908 William Howard Taft was Teddy Roosevelt's hand-picked successor, confident that Taft would continue TR's progressive policies.  But then, when TR returned from his travels in Africa, he had discovered, to his horror, that Taft had sold out to the very interests that TR had spent seven years battling against.  This caused TR to challenge Taft for the Republican nomination in 1912; and when Taft prevailed, for TR to run as an independent, essentially guaranteeing a Democratic victory in the general election.

Similarly, if Trump betrays the Rust Belt populists, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin will turn blue again just as fast as they turned red in this election, and Trump will lose, providing the Democrats don't nominate someone who is wilder than a March hare - a very distinct possibility.  That is if Trump doesn't get beat in the Republican primary, in which case Trump, with his ego,  would probably run for re-election as an independent, thereby exactly repeating the 1912 scenario.

If historian Colin Woodard is correct and the Democrats' historical "destiny" is to basically to become what the Republican Party was in the beginning (Northern, protectionist, economically interventionist) The Republicans in the long term can never capture this demographic. The core of the Republicans' coalition are the regions Woodard calls The Deep South and Greater Appalachia, both of which are deeply opposed to the interests, beliefs, and social norms of Yankeedom, which encompasses much of the Rust Belt.

Minnesota is not strictly in the Rust Belt, but the 2012 Election, which saw the Republicans getting wiped out in the state legislature after overreaching and trying to push a nationalized Tea Party agenda that was offensive to a culturally "Yankee" electorate, is possibly a taste what will be in store for the GOP in the entire region when voters up here realize Trump was full of shit.

[Ragnarök_62]

Eric The Green Wrote:I understand that. I'm just feeling like I need to help take the wool from peoples' eyes, if I can.

Yes, please, wool is itchy.

Quote:And remember again,he's just one guy, he doesn't have all the power. There's the congress and the people he's chosen and will be choosing as his advisors and cabinet.

Yes that, a high council of nimrods they are, for sure.

Quote:There's no hope for any of them, despite any amount of good vibes. Just removing some wool, that's all. I can pray too, but I don't put all my hopes into it. It's just too big, what's going on.

Where's the Who when ya need them.   "I get on my knees and pray.."

Quote:Leopards don't change stripes,

They can't.  The have spots, silly.   Here, have a look.




The  question would be if folks born in the year of the tiger, ahem, can change their stripes.

My card.

Quote: and neither do Republicans; sorry to say. But good luck; send some good vibes and positive thoughts to Paul Ryan and let me know how it works out. Maybe he'll see the light  

Maybe the above is Ryan's them song.

Quote:Interestingly, Trump was an avid student of the Power of Positive Thinking. It certainly worked for him. Will it work for America? Or do we also have to take account of some facts, too?

I prefer to wallow in the pragmatism of negative thinking myself.  It works in cases like robocalls.  If there's an area code I don't recognize, I don't answer because I know it's a come on.