Who should lead the Democrats?

[Eric the Green]

Who are the best leaders for the Democrats, which will make a comeback to power possible?

Should they be bold progressives, or mainstream compromisers?

Should they be Bernie Sanders, Michael Moore, Keith Ellison, Elizabeth Warren, Sherrod Brown, etc?

Or should they be Labor Sec. Perez, Gov. Cuomo, Tim Ryan, Sen. Manchin, Chuck Schumer, Steny Hoyer, Nancy Pelosi, et al?

Will it be important for our presidential candidate to have a good horoscope score? Or, in non-astrological layman's terms, someone who knows how to appeal to the American people? What does this look like? Who is the reverse Trump, or the new Obama/Bill Clinton? And not a Hillary or a Kerry or a Dukakis/Mondale/McGovern etc.?
(see the candidate scores here http://philosopherswheel.com/presidentialelections.html under who scored what)

Is someone from show biz, like Trump, the right answer to Trump? Seth Meyers, Oprah Winfrey, Michael Moore, or Stephen Colbert? (these are the best-scoring such alternatives from this realm so far)

Michael Moore has a disadvantage of Saturn born at his Nadir, and Colbert of a Saturn Return due in 2023-24.

Does appeal to the Rust Belt and the working class conflict with appeals to disadvantaged groups or "identity politics?" Why should there be a conflict?

Are there newcomers to the realm of presidential politics or on the horizon that might appeal, like Sen. Stabenow or Gov. Cooper? Gavin Newsom or Antonio Villaraigosa?

[Eric the Green]

I think Kamala Harris is well-suited for that role. I hope she assumes it.

[pbrower2a]

Democrats need to offer a coherent, honest, positive message. Otherwise we might as well replace the stars on our flag with a Confederate flag.

There are several possible results of the 2020 general election.

1. The worst is that it will largely be a compulsory ratification of a new and dictatorial order. In such a case the election is a sham, and no Democrat will have any chance to win any office that the Republicans are unwilling to concede. That obviously includes the Presidency. In this America are labor camps, torture chambers, and shooting pits... and your educational opportunities and career openings may depend on how loyally you serve the GOP establishment.

2. Military junta. Leaders like Donald Trump get overthrown by the military in other countries.

3. The Republicans will allow some semblance of a free election, and Democrats will come close to winning -- but somehow be left out in the cold. The reality of a small majority having unconstrained power will remain. In such a case it will not matter whom the Democrats nominate.

DEMOCRATS CANNOT WIN A RIGGED ELECTION, something that we cannot now say will not happen.

4. Democrats will win a few and lose a few... and fall short in a fair election. Maybe Donald Trump has some success as President, and he is able to tell people -- you got pay cuts, and you must work more hours, but America is truly Great Again... and enough suckers will believe him and his stooges.

5. Mixed results, normal between 2010 and this horrible year.

6. Decisive Democratic win of the presidency and clear wins of both Houses of Congress, an inverse of 2016. Basically Donald Trump and other Republicans have so offended Americans that Americans have chosen to vote in new politicians, especially Millennial pols, to high offices. We may think that Millennial adults are still wet behind the ears, but by then the oldest among them will be 38. That is much too long to be kept away from office.

Millennial adults will then be the largest generation in political life, and they will be the ones most capable of appealing to concerns of their generation. We Boomers do not yet understand them But we need to get accustomed to them. They will bring a rationality that older generations have largely rejected. That rationality will solve problems. Identity politics is not for them. Expect at the least white middle-class Millennial adults to vote much like black, Hispanic, and Asian members of the middle class, and don;t be surprised if the white working class turns on the Republican leaders that they perceive to have stabbed them in the back.

Such a win will show that Democrats have won in places that Republicans thought safe. Oh, you mean that Millennial parents don;t want their beloved children to go without milk so that the princess' cat can have cream?

This generation will not like liars and fools. It may not be 100% pacifist, but it doesn't want any war unless it has a clear purpose and a plan for exit or victory -- and of course a clear moral justification.

Note well: there are critical elections in 2018. Democrats have no reasonable chance of winning a Senate majority. They have no such chance until 2020 in a free and fair election (again, something that I cannot be sure of). The House? It's too late for a recession beginning even early in 2017 to gut the gerrymandered majority in the House. The big ones are Gubernatorial elections in Florida, Michigan, Ohio, and Wisconsin. Elected Democratic governors will not suppress the vote on behalf of Donald Trump or Mike Pence. North Carolina now has a Democratic Governor, and I expect him to do no favors for Trump or Pence. Two of the states of Michigan, Ohio, and Wisconsin, and Florida may seal doom for a re-election bid of Trump or Pence.

[pbrower2a]

(01-05-2017, 11:56 AM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: A variation on #2 is a proper coup.

Personally I would not be going after the CIA as aggressively as Trump is now doing.

A head of state in facing hostile Armed Forces, law enforcement, and intelligence services is vulnerable to a coup. I am not sure that "This is America" could save Donald trump if he commits egregious misconduct that Congress lets him get away with on strictly-partisan lines. If Congress will not impeach the President for gross misconduct, then who can?

I'm not saying that tanks will roll down Pennsylvania Avenue, but if that is what it takes to stop World War III, then so be it -- should the time come. God Help Us if we should face such a scenario.

Donald Trump is a Constitutional crisis waiting to happen.

[Anthony '58]

Now that it turns out that he won the governor's race in North Carolina, Roy Cooper would be ideal.

But I don't know what would make me more furious: The DNC naming Keith Ellison its chair, or the Eagles wasting their first-round draft pick on Corey Davis, who has "The Next J.J. Stokes" written all over him.

[Eric the Green]

(01-06-2017, 09:13 AM)Anthony Wrote: Now that it turns out that he won the governor's race in North Carolina, Roy Cooper would be ideal.

But I don't know what would make me more furious: The DNC naming Keith Ellison its chair, or the Eagles wasting their first-round draft pick on Corey Davis, who has "The Next J.J. Stokes" written all over him.

Ray Cooper is a possibility. Keith Ellison is necessary. We need the Democratic Party to rebuild from the grassroots, not the wealthy donors.

[David Horn]

(01-06-2017, 05:35 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-06-2017, 09:13 AM)Anthony Wrote: Now that it turns out that he won the governor's race in North Carolina, Roy Cooper would be ideal.

But I don't know what would make me more furious: The DNC naming Keith Ellison its chair, or the Eagles wasting their first-round draft pick on Corey Davis, who has "The Next J.J. Stokes" written all over him.

Ray Cooper is a possibility. Keith Ellison is necessary. We need the Democratic Party to rebuild from the grassroots, not the wealthy donors.

Ellison is a talented guy, but he has a full time job.  Running the DNC is also a full time job.  If he really wants it, he should resign from Congress the day he gets the nod. 

FWIW, I think he's vastly more valuable where he is.

[Odin]

(01-06-2017, 09:13 AM)Anthony Wrote: Now that it turns out that he won the governor's race in North Carolina, Roy Cooper would be ideal.

But I don't know what would make me more furious: The DNC naming Keith Ellison its chair, or the Eagles wasting their first-round draft pick on Corey Davis, who has "The Next J.J. Stokes" written all over him.

We northern Dems are sick of Southern conservative Democrats, one of the reasons Obama was a breath of fresh air was that he was the first northern Dem president since JFK. Also, ever since the Civil Rights realignment finished in 2000 trying to get the votes of the white working class of people in the South is pointless.

Ellison is exactly the person we need in charge of the DNC right now, he's a practical Midwestern populist who knows how grassroots, door-to-door politics works.

[Odin]

(01-07-2017, 07:31 AM)David Horn Wrote: Ellison is a talented guy, but he has a full time job.  Running the DNC is also a full time job.  If he really wants it, he should resign from Congress the day he gets the nod. 

FWIW, I think he's vastly more valuable where he is.

He says that he's going to resign his House seat if he gets the DNC post.

[Bronsin]

The Dems may have a chance in the next election if they jettison the old Baby Boomer stalwarts in the party for a GenX'er, but relinquishing control of anything has never been their strong suit. Oh, and focus the campaign on real issues facing everyday Americans, not just slandering your opponent and lumping a huge portion of the populace as a "deplorable" disgrace.

[The Wonkette]

(01-07-2017, 10:42 AM)Bronsin Wrote: The Dems may have a chance in the next election if they jettison the old Baby Boomer stalwarts in the party for a GenX'er, but relinquishing control of anything has never been their strong suit. Oh, and focus the campaign on real issues facing everyday Americans, not just slandering your opponent and lumping a huge portion of the populace as a "deplorable" disgrace.

In your mind, does a 1963 cohort qualify as Gen X?  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Ellison

[Bronsin]

Yes, but he's a Muslim, which is worse than a Baby Boomer.

[Eric the Green]

(01-07-2017, 10:42 AM)Bronsin Wrote: The Dems may have a chance in the next election if they jettison the old Baby Boomer stalwarts in the party for a GenX'er, but relinquishing control of anything has never been their strong suit. Oh, and focus the campaign on real issues facing everyday Americans, not just slandering your opponent and lumping a huge portion of the populace as a "deplorable" disgrace.

Actually, not bad advice; coming from a bigot of course (I reference your above remark).

It's probably true that Boomers don't like relinquishing control, although it's probably a trait common to all generations. I note that Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell are Silents.

[Bronsin]

Here is what I heard Eric........

[pbrower2a]

I want Millennials strongly active in the anti-Trump coalition -- even if that implies the wasting away of our specifically-Boom agenda. We Boomers had our chance to remake America, and what may be our last Boomer President will have ruined our political reputation.

Let's do to Donald Trump what the Tea Party did to Obama, effectively thwarting his progressive agenda and ultimately putting America at risk of being a plutocratic monstrosity.

The Tea Party :

1. Changed votes and defeated legislation
2. Radically slowed federal policy-making
3. Forced Republicans to avoid compromise
4. Shaped national debate about Obama's agenda
5. Paved the way for the Republican takeover in 2018 and the rise of Donald Trump today

These were tangible results that a small part of the American public forced upon America.

What we must not do the vileness that the Tea Party did:

1. Ignore reality and make up falsehood presented as facts
2. Threaten anyone imagined as an enemy
3. Physically assault Congressional staff (including spitting upon them)
4. Shout obscenities and burn people in effigy
5. Target hatred at fellow citizens (especially of color) as well as Congress

....

We can be better than they were. We must be.

With a President who lies practically at will, who has bragged about sexist behavior, and who has smeared people for religion and ethnicity, we have the High Road open to us. Truth will be on our side. We can use statistics, and we can archive quotes of Trump hangers-on.

We have plenty to defend: Inter-ethnic equity and respect for all religions. Gay rights. The right to contraception and abortion. Environmental quality. The right to honest pay for honest work. Equal opportunity. Justice in taxation. Quality schooling. Keeping politics from suppressing science. Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security. We need not bait the police. (If anything, take photos of people torching cars or smashing windows, and give the photos to the police and local district-attorneys for arrest and prosecution).

Oh, by the way -- stop using derogatory terms about poor white people in the Mountain and Deep South... stop it NOW!

[Anthony '58]

But of course, now, with his precedent-setting testimony against a fellow Senator up for a Cabinet post, Cory Booker has made a strong bid for the 2020 Democratic POTUS nomination.

And unlike Ellison, I can live with Booker getting it.

[flbones too]

I think we may see a populist socialist anti establishment candiate take lead. A Democrat version of Trump.

[pbrower2a]

(01-14-2017, 01:36 PM)flbones too Wrote: I think we may see a populist socialist anti establishment candiate take lead. A Democrat version of Trump.

Let's avoid the dishonesty and demagoguery, of course.

[Anthony '58]

(01-07-2017, 09:47 AM)Odin Wrote:

(01-06-2017, 09:13 AM)Anthony Wrote: Now that it turns out that he won the governor's race in North Carolina, Roy Cooper would be ideal.

But I don't know what would make me more furious: The DNC naming Keith Ellison its chair, or the Eagles wasting their first-round draft pick on Corey Davis, who has "The Next J.J. Stokes" written all over him.

We northern Dems are sick of Southern conservative Democrats, one of the reasons Obama was a breath of fresh air was that he was the first northern Dem president since JFK. Also, ever since the Civil Rights realignment finished in 2000 trying to get the votes of the white working class of people in the South is pointless.

Ellison is exactly the person we need in charge of the DNC right now, he's a practical Midwestern populist who knows how grassroots, door-to-door politics works.

In that case, it can be Andrew Cuomo, a Northeastern populist who is also "one of us" - a Christian (albeit a Catholic).

[Warren Dew]

(01-14-2017, 01:49 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(01-14-2017, 01:36 PM)flbones too Wrote: I think we may see a populist socialist anti establishment candiate take lead. A Democrat version of Trump.

Let's avoid the dishonesty and demagoguery, of course.

Too late - he already said "populist socialist".