David Perdue curses the President

[pbrower2a]

Sen. David Perdue (R-Ga.) joked at a conservative Christian event on Friday that he prays President Barack Obama’s days will be “few.”
The first-term senator began his opening statement at the Faith & Freedom Coalition’s Road to Majority conference by telling attendees to pray for Obama. With a smirk, Perdue said, “We should pray like Psalms 109:8 says. It says: ‘Let his days be few and let another have his office.’”
The large crowd laughed.
Perdue did not continue reciting the words, but Psalm 109 is a death wish for one of David’s enemies.
It goes on: “Let his children be fatherless; and his wife a widow. Let his children wander about and beg; and let them seek sustenance far from their ruined homes. Let the creditor seize all that he has; and let strangers plunder the product of his labor. Let there be none to extend lovingkindness to him; nor any to be gracious to his fatherless children. Let his posterity be cut off; in a following generation let their name be blotted out.”
Caroline Vanvick, a spokeswoman for Perdue, issued the following response:

Quote:Senator Perdue said we are called to pray for our country, for our leaders, and for our president. He in no way wishes harm towards our president and everyone in the room understood that. However, we should add the media to our prayer list because they are pushing a narrative to create controversy and that is exactly what the American people are tired of.

The Christian Science Monitor noted that conservatives have used this verse in the past to talk about the end of Obama’s days in office.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/davi...d23ca7e771

[radind]

(06-11-2016, 01:23 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Sen. David Perdue (R-Ga.) joked at a conservative Christian event on Friday that he prays President Barack Obama’s days will be “few.”
The first-term senator began his opening statement at the Faith & Freedom Coalition’s Road to Majority conference by telling attendees to pray for Obama. With a smirk, Perdue said, “We should pray like Psalms 109:8 says. It says: ‘Let his days be few and let another have his office.’”
The large crowd laughed.
Perdue did not continue reciting the words, but Psalm 109 is a death wish for one of David’s enemies.
It goes on: “Let his children be fatherless; and his wife a widow. Let his children wander about and beg; and let them seek sustenance far from their ruined homes. Let the creditor seize all that he has; and let strangers plunder the product of his labor. Let there be none to extend lovingkindness to him; nor any to be gracious to his fatherless children. Let his posterity be cut off; in a following generation let their name be blotted out.”
Caroline Vanvick, a spokeswoman for Perdue, issued the following response:

Quote:Senator Perdue said we are called to pray for our country, for our leaders, and for our president. He in no way wishes harm towards our president and everyone in the room understood that. However, we should add the media to our prayer list because they are pushing a narrative to create controversy and that is exactly what the American people are tired of.

The Christian Science Monitor noted that conservatives have used this verse in the past to talk about the end of Obama’s days in office.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/davi...d23ca7e771

I do not agree with  Perdue . His statements are not consistent with my understanding of Christianity. 

Quote:1 Timothy 2:1-2 ESV First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.

[pbrower2a]

Here is the Psalm (109):

For the director of music. Of David. A psalm.

1 My God, whom I praise,
    do not remain silent,
2 for people who are wicked and deceitful
    have opened their mouths against me;
    they have spoken against me with lying tongues.
3 With words of hatred they surround me;
    they attack me without cause.
4 In return for my friendship they accuse me,
    but I am a man of prayer.
5 They repay me evil for good,
    and hatred for my friendship.
6 Appoint someone evil to oppose my enemy;
    let an accuser stand at his right hand.
7 When he is tried, let him be found guilty,
    and may his prayers condemn him.
8 May his days be few;
    may another take his place of leadership.
9 May his children be fatherless
    and his wife a widow.
10 May his children be wandering beggars;
    may they be driven[a] from their ruined homes.
11 May a creditor seize all he has;
    may strangers plunder the fruits of his labor.
12 May no one extend kindness to him
    or take pity on his fatherless children.
13 May his descendants be cut off,
    their names blotted out from the next generation.
14 May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the Lord;
    may the sin of his mother never be blotted out.
15 May their sins always remain before the Lord,
    that he may blot out their name from the earth.
16 For he never thought of doing a kindness,
    but hounded to death the poor
    and the needy and the brokenhearted.
17 He loved to pronounce a curse—
    may it come back on him.
He found no pleasure in blessing—
    may it be far from him.
18 He wore cursing as his garment;
    it entered into his body like water,
    into his bones like oil.
19 May it be like a cloak wrapped about him,
    like a belt tied forever around him.
20 May this be the Lord’s payment to my accusers,
    to those who speak evil of me.
21 But you, Sovereign Lord,
    help me for your name’s sake;
    out of the goodness of your love, deliver me.
22 For I am poor and needy,
    and my heart is wounded within me.
23 I fade away like an evening shadow;
    I am shaken off like a locust.
24 My knees give way from fasting;
    my body is thin and gaunt.
25 I am an object of scorn to my accusers;
    when they see me, they shake their heads.
26 Help me, Lord my God;
    save me according to your unfailing love.
27 Let them know that it is your hand,
    that you, Lord, have done it.
28 While they curse, may you bless;
    may those who attack me be put to shame,
    but may your servant rejoice.
29 May my accusers be clothed with disgrace
    and wrapped in shame as in a cloak.
30 With my mouth I will greatly extol the Lord;
    in the great throng of worshipers I will praise him.
31 For he stands at the right hand of the needy,
    to save their lives from those who would condemn them.

Such a curse would fit a brutal tyrant, an enemy of a righteous People... someone so wicked as to repay charity with enmity. This is not about a political rival or someone with whom one has disputes of policy. "May his children be fatherless"... that was the curse against Amalek, and one made upon Adolf Eichmann upon his conviction for the mass murder of the Jews. In an American context it would fit Osama bin Laden since 2001.

Against the current President?

[radind]

(06-11-2016, 09:23 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Here is the Psalm (109):

For the director of music. Of David. A psalm.

1 My God, whom I praise,
    do not remain silent,
2 for people who are wicked and deceitful
    have opened their mouths against me;
    they have spoken against me with lying tongues.
3 With words of hatred they surround me;
    they attack me without cause.
4 In return for my friendship they accuse me,
    but I am a man of prayer.
5 They repay me evil for good,
    and hatred for my friendship.
6 Appoint someone evil to oppose my enemy;
    let an accuser stand at his right hand.
7 When he is tried, let him be found guilty,
    and may his prayers condemn him.
8 May his days be few;
    may another take his place of leadership.
9 May his children be fatherless
    and his wife a widow.
10 May his children be wandering beggars;
    may they be driven[a] from their ruined homes.
11 May a creditor seize all he has;
    may strangers plunder the fruits of his labor.
12 May no one extend kindness to him
    or take pity on his fatherless children.
13 May his descendants be cut off,
    their names blotted out from the next generation.
14 May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the Lord;
    may the sin of his mother never be blotted out.
15 May their sins always remain before the Lord,
    that he may blot out their name from the earth.
16 For he never thought of doing a kindness,
    but hounded to death the poor
    and the needy and the brokenhearted.
17 He loved to pronounce a curse—
    may it come back on him.
He found no pleasure in blessing—
    may it be far from him.
18 He wore cursing as his garment;
    it entered into his body like water,
    into his bones like oil.
19 May it be like a cloak wrapped about him,
    like a belt tied forever around him.
20 May this be the Lord’s payment to my accusers,
    to those who speak evil of me.
21 But you, Sovereign Lord,
    help me for your name’s sake;
    out of the goodness of your love, deliver me.
22 For I am poor and needy,
    and my heart is wounded within me.
23 I fade away like an evening shadow;
    I am shaken off like a locust.
24 My knees give way from fasting;
    my body is thin and gaunt.
25 I am an object of scorn to my accusers;
    when they see me, they shake their heads.
26 Help me, Lord my God;
    save me according to your unfailing love.
27 Let them know that it is your hand,
    that you, Lord, have done it.
28 While they curse, may you bless;
    may those who attack me be put to shame,
    but may your servant rejoice.
29 May my accusers be clothed with disgrace
    and wrapped in shame as in a cloak.
30 With my mouth I will greatly extol the Lord;
    in the great throng of worshipers I will praise him.
31 For he stands at the right hand of the needy,
    to save their lives from those who would condemn them.

Such a curse would fit a brutal tyrant, an enemy of a righteous People... someone so wicked as to repay charity with enmity. This is not about a political rival or someone with whom one has disputes of policy. "May his children be fatherless"... that was the curse against Amalek, and one made upon Adolf Eichmann upon his conviction for the mass murder of the Jews. In an American context it would fit Osama bin Laden since 2001.

Against the current President?

It should be noted that Christians are not under the old law of the Old Testament. In my opinion, the analysis of barna.org that the percentage in the US with a Biblical worldview is ~10% is consistent with the behavior that I observe.
Perdue is definitely out of line and does not represent Christianity as I understand it.

Quote:http://www.bible.ca/b-Why-OT-NT.htm
… "Since the time of the cross, even now in this Christian age, men live under the law of Christ rather than under the Law of Moses as in the Old Testament times. (John 1:17). Christ fulfilled the Old Covenant (or Law of Moses), nailed it to His cross and ended it there. (Study Luke 24:44 and Col. 2:14). Thus no portion of the Old Testament binds us today; even the 10 commandments have been replaced by better requirements. To illustrate this statement regarding the seventh commandment, where Jesus (during His sermon on the Mount) commanded, "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart". 
To return to the old law, that is, to bind parts of the old law on Christians is to say that Christ died for nothing (Study Galatians 2:21). It is to be severed from Christ and fall from grace (Galatians 5:4), it is to return to sin and death (Romans 8:2), it is to sink back into perdition (Hebrews 10:39).”

[pbrower2a]

(06-13-2016, 10:50 AM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(06-11-2016, 09:23 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Here is the Psalm (109):

For the director of music. Of David. A psalm.

1 My God, whom I praise,
    do not remain silent,
2 for people who are wicked and deceitful
    have opened their mouths against me;
    they have spoken against me with lying tongues.
3 With words of hatred they surround me;
    they attack me without cause.
4 In return for my friendship they accuse me,
    but I am a man of prayer.
5 They repay me evil for good,
    and hatred for my friendship.
6 Appoint someone evil to oppose my enemy;
    let an accuser stand at his right hand.
7 When he is tried, let him be found guilty,
    and may his prayers condemn him.
8 May his days be few;
    may another take his place of leadership.
9 May his children be fatherless
    and his wife a widow.
10 May his children be wandering beggars;
    may they be driven[a] from their ruined homes.
11 May a creditor seize all he has;
    may strangers plunder the fruits of his labor.
12 May no one extend kindness to him
    or take pity on his fatherless children.
13 May his descendants be cut off,
    their names blotted out from the next generation.
14 May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the Lord;
    may the sin of his mother never be blotted out.
15 May their sins always remain before the Lord,
    that he may blot out their name from the earth.
16 For he never thought of doing a kindness,
    but hounded to death the poor
    and the needy and the brokenhearted.
17 He loved to pronounce a curse—
    may it come back on him.
He found no pleasure in blessing—
    may it be far from him.
18 He wore cursing as his garment;
    it entered into his body like water,
    into his bones like oil.
19 May it be like a cloak wrapped about him,
    like a belt tied forever around him.
20 May this be the Lord’s payment to my accusers,
    to those who speak evil of me.
21 But you, Sovereign Lord,
    help me for your name’s sake;
    out of the goodness of your love, deliver me.
22 For I am poor and needy,
    and my heart is wounded within me.
23 I fade away like an evening shadow;
    I am shaken off like a locust.
24 My knees give way from fasting;
    my body is thin and gaunt.
25 I am an object of scorn to my accusers;
    when they see me, they shake their heads.
26 Help me, Lord my God;
    save me according to your unfailing love.
27 Let them know that it is your hand,
    that you, Lord, have done it.
28 While they curse, may you bless;
    may those who attack me be put to shame,
    but may your servant rejoice.
29 May my accusers be clothed with disgrace
    and wrapped in shame as in a cloak.
30 With my mouth I will greatly extol the Lord;
    in the great throng of worshipers I will praise him.
31 For he stands at the right hand of the needy,
    to save their lives from those who would condemn them.

Such a curse would fit a brutal tyrant, an enemy of a righteous People... someone so wicked as to repay charity with enmity. This is not about a political rival or someone with whom one has disputes of policy. "May his children be fatherless"... that was the curse against Amalek, and one made upon Adolf Eichmann upon his conviction for the mass murder of the Jews. In an American context it would fit Osama bin Laden since 2001.

Against the current President?

It's a cancer that is all too common within current American society. Grass roots efforts to eradicate it need to be a high priority. We need diverse groups embedded in PTAs, work places, churches, and other gathering points of cross sections of society, to teach the alternatives to the cancerous evil path of division and hatred of our brethren.

The problem is not that it is a religious text. I can imagine this Psalm being delivered during the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising; it would fit the situation exceedingly well. The problem is that someone uses it as a response to a trivial affront -- an elected official -- duly elected, of course -- that one simply disagrees with. Senator Perdue uses it severely out of context.

Our leaders in business, education, religion, politics, and the esteemed professions need to show some humanity if America is to not become a nightmare. Power is one thing; cruel people holding power makes any expression of such power cruel. What else would one expect?

Except for people in strictly-technical fields, we need to bring undergraduate education back to the old purpose of liberal arts -- the learning that humanizes people by showing that more exists to life than sex, drugs, entertainment, bureaucratic power, and material indulgence, Of course people on the low end can lust for such things, but people at the top of the social hierarchies must be able to sacrifice any of those for a worthy cause. That does not mean that those elites can sacrifice those things of others so that those elites can get more. People who have studied history and philosophy can understand when the Psalm is relevant -- and when it isn't.

Civility does not depend upon unlimited potential of human ability; it implies some restraint.

[TnT]

(06-11-2016, 10:19 AM)radind Wrote: Perdue is definitely out of line and does not represent Christianity as I understand it.

I've heard this before, and yet, somehow, some American Christians ignore Leviticus while embracing literally Genesis?
The Jesus Message has a lot going for it.  The vast majority of Christianity, as it is practiced, is a malignancy.