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05-20-2017, 05:24 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2017, 05:29 AM by Warren Dew.)
Quote:Teenagers born after 2000 - the so-called 'Generation Z' - are the most socially conservative generation since the Second World War, a new study has found.
The youngsters surveyed had more conservative views on gay marriage, transgender rights and drugs than Baby Boomers, Generation X or Millennials.
The questioned were more prudent than Millennials, Generation X and Baby Boomers but not quite as cash-savvy as those born in 1945 or before.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3790614/They-don-t-like-drugs-gay-marriage-HATE-tattoos-Generation-Z-conservative-WW2.html#ixzz4hc4xPo3f
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...e-WW2.html
Edit: and a hypothesis about why:
Quote:Forget Millennials. A new generation is coming of age: Generation-Z.
It’s being heralded as the most conservative generation since 1945.
One reason, according to Charlie Peters, a member of that generation in Great Britain, is their love of freedom. Not long ago, that impulse led young people to embrace the causes of the Left. But now the Left is associated with suppressing freedom.
Now that Generation-Zs are entering the university, they are chafing against the Leftist establishment’s rejection of free speech. These young people, Peters observes, grew up on the internet and social media where people can hold any position and say whatever they want. So when they come to the university with its speech codes and taboo ideas, they don’t like it. So they are becoming conservatives.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/geneveith/2...eration-z/
A solid generation of libertarians would be great.
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No, this is an alt-right fantasy passed around as fact around the right-wing media bubble.
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It's at least based on data. Do you have any data to the contrary?
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(05-20-2017, 05:16 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: It's at least based on data. Do you have any data to the contrary?
You need to remember that Eric the Obtuse and Odin don't live in the same universe the rest of us do. 
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken
If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action. -- Ludwig von Mises
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(05-20-2017, 07:47 PM)Galen Wrote: (05-20-2017, 05:16 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: It's at least based on data. Do you have any data to the contrary?
You need to remember that Eric the (insult redacted) and Odin don't live in the same universe the rest of us do.
As say the drunks: "the sober do not live in the same universe that we live in".
It is essential to remember that youth are much more malleable in their political and social values than are adults. Since this is a Crisis Era, events will shake whatever foundations of political affiliation of "Generation Z:.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(05-20-2017, 05:24 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: Quote:Teenagers born after 2000 - the so-called 'Generation Z' - are the most socially conservative generation since the Second World War, a new study has found.
The youngsters surveyed had more conservative views on gay marriage, transgender rights and drugs than Baby Boomers, Generation X or Millennials.
The questioned were more prudent than Millennials, Generation X and Baby Boomers but not quite as cash-savvy as those born in 1945 or before.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3790614/They-don-t-like-drugs-gay-marriage-HATE-tattoos-Generation-Z-conservative-WW2.html#ixzz4hc4xPo3f
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...e-WW2.html
Edit: and a hypothesis about why:
Quote:Forget Millennials. A new generation is coming of age: Generation-Z.
It’s being heralded as the most conservative generation since 1945.
One reason, according to Charlie Peters, a member of that generation in Great Britain, is their love of freedom. Not long ago, that impulse led young people to embrace the causes of the Left. But now the Left is associated with suppressing freedom.
Now that Generation-Zs are entering the university, they are chafing against the Leftist establishment’s rejection of free speech. These young people, Peters observes, grew up on the internet and social media where people can hold any position and say whatever they want. So when they come to the university with its speech codes and taboo ideas, they don’t like it. So they are becoming conservatives.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/geneveith/2...eration-z/
A solid generation of libertarians would be great.
Although libertarians may be right on some issues, the full measure of libertarianism remains as utopian as Marxism-Leninism. Libertarians have never explained how to resolve conflicts between concepts of freedom. They cannot see anything wrong with peonage contracts that take away freedom from people in return for survival in tough times. (I prefer the welfare state to peonage -- don't you?)
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(05-20-2017, 07:47 PM)Galen Wrote: (05-20-2017, 05:16 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: It's at least based on data. Do you have any data to the contrary?
You need to remember that Eric the Obtuse and Odin don't live in the same universe the rest of us do.
I don't know about Odin, but I have surprisingly found that Eric is much more willing than most leftists to recognize the same empirical facts that I do. We differ mostly in goals and in certain theories: he believes astrology works and I don't; I believe economics works and he doesn't.
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(05-20-2017, 05:16 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: It's at least based on data. Do you have any data to the contrary?
People's political beliefs are not fully formed until age 25, A good % of teenagers, especially ones as coddled and overprotected as this current bunch, are just brainlessly parroting the beliefs of their Xer parents.
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05-21-2017, 07:29 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2017, 07:30 PM by Galen.)
(05-21-2017, 06:54 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: (05-20-2017, 07:47 PM)Galen Wrote: (05-20-2017, 05:16 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: It's at least based on data. Do you have any data to the contrary?
You need to remember that Eric the Obtuse (accurate description restored) and Odin don't live in the same universe the rest of us do.
It is essential to remember that youth are much more malleable in their political and social values than are adults. Since this is a Crisis Era, events will shake whatever foundations of political affiliation of "Generation Z:.
It seems unlikely that the drift to the left that has been going since the sixties will continue forever. Gary North has an interesting article on what he calls The Great Default. In another article he covers this idea in more detail. The real question is who gets the loot when the non-discretionary part of the federal government reaches 100%?
It will be very interesting to see how Generation Z reacts to this breakdown since I very much doubt they will embrace the values of the Boomers. It also seems unlikely they will consider government in a good light.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken
If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action. -- Ludwig von Mises
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(05-21-2017, 06:16 PM)Odin Wrote: (05-20-2017, 05:16 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: It's at least based on data. Do you have any data to the contrary?
People's political beliefs are not fully formed until age 25, A good % of teenagers, especially ones as coddled and overprotected as this current bunch, are just brainlessly parroting the beliefs of their Xer parents.
I'll disagree to this extent. Some of the SJW behavior, especially on campus, was almost guaranteed to trigger a backlash. People who arrive at a situation without the social imprinting that made the current model viable will be the first to see all the flaws, and there are certainly flaws. So the entering classes are likely to be put off by stupidity, which is not the same as saying they are diametrically opposed to the underlying views of their elder classmates. On that, the clock is still ticking. I doubt they look at their parents and see a preferable model to adopt either. Perhaps,, they may be the open minded ones the Adaptives are expected to be.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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(05-21-2017, 07:29 PM)Galen Wrote: (05-21-2017, 06:54 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: (05-20-2017, 07:47 PM)Galen Wrote: (05-20-2017, 05:16 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: It's at least based on data. Do you have any data to the contrary?
You need to remember that Eric (inflammatory description redacted again) and Odin don't live in the same universe the rest of us do.
It is essential to remember that youth are much more malleable in their political and social values than are adults. Since this is a Crisis Era, events will shake whatever foundations of political affiliation of "Generation Z:.
It seems unlikely that the drift to the left that has been going since the sixties will continue forever. Gary North has an interesting article on what he calls The Great Default. In another article he covers this idea in more detail. The real question is who gets the loot when the non-discretionary part of the federal government reaches 100%?
It will be very interesting to see how Generation Z reacts to this breakdown since I very much doubt they will embrace the values of the Boomers. It also seems unlikely they will consider government in a good light.
Continuing drift to the Left from the 1960s? I'd say that the college campuses became less friendly to the Left as Generation X chose to make places for themselves than to make the world a better place, and a culture more hedonistic and cynical than what Boomers had. Meanwhile, the Religious Right started making gains in all generations at the time. That's the Reagan era. The only people well organized to effect change were the plutocrats and executives (and they had a pliant President as an excellent propagandist) and the Religious Right.
The "Left" was concerned with avoiding wage cuts, not having such garbage as young-earth creationism and the 'providential history" of David Barton imposed upon schools, and not facing regimentation of sexuality. Those may have been "Left" victories, but that's as far as it has gone. Successful defenses are not definitive triumphs.
The fall of Communism in the Soviet bloc was generally cheered throughout America, an indicator that the Hard Left was practically gone as a cultural or political influence. Likewise the invasions of Grenada (to thwart an Deep Red coup against a 'pinko' leader) and Panama (drug-enabling dictator who threatened Americans)... and of course the liberation of Kuwait from a murderous tyrant who had invaded Kuwait in violation of international law. Sure, that shows the power of the Left of the 1960s... its absence. The anti-Soviet hawks simply became irrelevant once the Cold War came to an end. Bill Clinton may have defeated the elder Bush in a Presidential election, but he chose to maintain the foreign policy... only without the big military buildup of Ronald Reagan.
September 11 seemed to change everything. Americans united behind the President, a big-government right-winger, in response to the worst terrorist attack ever upon America. I can't remember anyone arguing that we had it coming because we were a racist, plutocratic, male-chauvinist, homophobic society. The problem was that we had a weak President who didn't pay attention to intelligence. He also put blame on the wrong culprit for 9/11 and got America into a badly-bungled war. He also mishandled a natural disaster, something that looked bad to most Americans.
So America dumped the Republican majority in both Houses of Congress in 2006 (more an issue of competence than of ideology) and elected what you probably think of as " One Big- A$$ Mistake, America} -- you know, the radical Islamic Marxist born in Kenya. By 2009 the Right had its Tea Party,and eight years later America has quite possibly the purest plutocracy in the West. I find it hard to believe that anyone can see Donald Trump and his coterie, including a Congress and most state legislatures under control of corporate interests, as any7thing other than a triumph of the Right. The ruling elite of America acts as if no human suffering is in excess so long as it creates, enforces, or indulges elite profiteers and their most-needed tools. If that is not reactionary and right-wing, then what is?
Yes, there is a backlash. But if there is a Left in America, it is really new -- not at all connected with the cultural ferment of the 1960s. Boomers have little to do with it. As a Boomer on the Left I do not care what culture that younger adults express. (By the way -- my culture is ultra-conservative. I love classical music, and I am beginning to appreciate Norman Rockwell). I've got bigger concerns, like whether we have rule of law and government responsive to people who have little stake in the opulent splendor of elites.
Man existing solely as a machine for generating wealth for elites -- now that is a reactionary idea. That's how life has been for slaves, serfs, and zeks. I am enough of a radical now to recognize Marxism-Leninism as a reactionary ideology.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(05-20-2017, 05:16 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: It's at least based on data. Do you have any data to the contrary?
It's what people believe at age 20 that really matters. In the 1970s many Boomers entered college as conservatives and ended up as liberals.
The kids born just after 9/11 have yet to get through their teen years. They aren't really close yet. Indeed, the first such kids have yet to qualify for drivers' licenses yet in most states.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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The oldest of the Homeland generation are only 12-14 years old. It is hard to know what will happen in 8-10 years when they start to come of age.
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The first wave of Adaptive youth (Andrew Jackson, William McKinley, Paul Newman) start coming of age as the Crisis is practically over or shortly afterward. They typically emerge as conformists following the lead of a Hero generation. If America in the late 2020s or early 2030s looks like Franco's Spain, then they will mostly fit into the Christian and Corporate State, pretending to love the repression, hierarchy, and inequality as patriotic expressions. If America should be dissolved and partitioned like Germany was after World War II, then they will consider, as is then expected, what happened in the recent past to be discredited and guarded against. If America emerges triumphant, better than ever, then they will endorse what makes America better than ever.
Because nobody can predict how the Crisis will turn out, we cannot yet predict how Homeland kids will turn out. Just think of all those kids in Hitlerjugend and Bund deutscher Maedel who had been born in the late 1920s who remained the good little Nazis that Hitler, Goering, and Goebbels wanted them to be. Whoops!
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(05-27-2017, 04:18 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: (05-20-2017, 05:16 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: It's at least based on data. Do you have any data to the contrary?
It's what people believe at age 20 that really matters. In the 1970s many Boomers entered college as conservatives and ended up as liberals.
The kids born just after 9/11 have yet to get through their teen years. They aren't really close yet. Indeed, the first such kids have yet to qualify for drivers' licenses yet in most states.
All true. That's why the study compared them to previous generations at the same age. Granted it's a big assumption that the degree of indoctrination in college remains constant between generations.
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(05-30-2017, 08:43 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: (05-27-2017, 04:18 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: (05-20-2017, 05:16 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: It's at least based on data. Do you have any data to the contrary?
It's what people believe at age 20 that really matters. In the 1970s many Boomers entered college as conservatives and ended up as liberals.
The kids born just after 9/11 have yet to get through their teen years. They aren't really close yet. Indeed, the first such kids have yet to qualify for drivers' licenses yet in most states.
All true. That's why the study compared them to previous generations at the same age. Granted it's a big assumption that the degree of indoctrination in college remains constant between generations.
However much 'PC' Silent and Boomers may have wanted to indoctrinate Generation X into robotic radicals, the older generations failed completely in the effort. The only resistance that Generation X posed to the Right was on sexual repression and the pushing of pseudoscience. Generation X was not going to sacrifice reason or self-interest to any ideology. Give Generation X credit for some chilly rationalism that leaves little room for superstition.
We have yet to see how current children approaching adulthood will respond to Trump (or for that matter, Obama) as President. We do not yet know what the consequences of Obama are so far (the most interesting thing about his Presidency will be his origin... yawn!), let alone those of Trump.
GIs of a certain time were indoctrinated in "New Era" economics (basically plutocracy, 1920s style); events proved such economics catastrophically inadequate.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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I agree with pbrower and others that it is too soon to make assumptions about the political leanings of a generation when the oldest among them are teenagers and many not even born. But it is cool to see youngsters taking an interest in these things and starting to form their own opinions.
http://people.com/politics/8th-graders-r...paul-ryan/
Quote:Nearly 100 New Jersey eighth graders refused to pose for a group photo with House Speaker Paul Ryan during a recent class field trip to Washington, D.C.
According to Mashable, about half of the eighth grade class at South Orange Middle School chose to sit in a parking lot rather than join their peers for the photo-op with the top Republican on Friday.
“I think that taking the picture represents that you agree with the same political views and I don’t agree with his political views so I chose not to be in it,” eighth grader Wendy Weeks told local New Jersey newspaper The Village Green.
“I can’t take a picture with someone who supports a budget that would destroy public education and would leave 23 million people without healthcare,” added student Matthew Malespina, who described Ryan as “a man who puts his party before his country.”
Other students were willing to set aside their political differences with Ryan to take advantage of a rare opportunity.
“I thought it would be interesting to see one of the nation’s lawmakers in person even if I strongly disagree with many of his views,” said student Alex Klint.
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(01-18-2019, 08:43 PM)gabrielle Wrote: Pew Research Center released this report yesterday:
Generation Z Looks a Lot Like Millennials on Key Social and Political Issues Among Republicans, Gen Z stands out in views on race, climate and the role of government
Howe and Strauss predicted that the post-Millennial generation (unless the Crisis of 2020 came early and pushed Generation X into a Gilded-style Reactive-Civic hybrid and turned the Millennial Generation into an Adaptive generation as was the Progressive Generation, which has not happened) would be a conformist generation operating under the shadow of its more-powerful predecessors. It would defer to the cultural and political choices of the Millennial generation until the High was over while making small gestures distinguishing itself.
Generation Z is growing up in a dangerous time in which children are over-protected and discouraged from taking risks. Like its Silent predecessors it has its childhood on the sidelines of history and will miss the limelight except in an Awakening Era in which the next Boom-like generation proves more intellectually-daring. When the next Crisis arises around 2100, Generation Z will be on the sidelines, this time due to old age. That's how it was for the Silent.
I expect it to do well at comedy much like the Silent as have the likes of Jerry Lewis, Andy Griffith, Joan Rivers, Dick Van Dyke, Alan King, Tim Conway, Alan Alda, Dom Deluise, find the world a bit too stiff Flip Wilson, Woody Allen, Carol Burnett, John Cleese, Terry Palin, George Carlin, Christopher Lloyd, and Richard Pryor. (Do you notice something missing already in American life?) -- once America and the world seems a bit too stiff as the Crisis becomes less real in life. But that is after the Crisis is over.
Generation Z isn't going to shake the world. There are already too many political earthquakes, and the world would not notice.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(05-30-2017, 10:25 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: However much 'PC' Silent and Boomers may have wanted to indoctrinate Generation X into robotic radicals, the older generations failed completely in the effort.
Exactly. Maybe the Boomers (left AND right) believed in "do what I say, not what I do", but in practice, my Xers saw through their hypocrisy. The leftie Boomers may have talked about idealism, but in practice, they liked to comsume pot, sex, and getting money from the state; and the rightists tawked about tradition, religion and whatnot, but in practice they liked inheriting stuff, bossing around people (even if they had no clue), and were secretly happy about looser sexual morals.
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