Report: US Government Chronically Lied About Trillion Dollar War In Afghanistan

[mayor2]

Report: US Government Chronically Lied About Trillion Dollar War In Afghanistan

https://dailycaller.com/2019/12/09/us-go...ghanistan/

[David Horn]

Really old news.

[Warren Dew]

Seems the journalists just now figured it out, obvious as it has been to the rest of us for nearly two decades.

[David Horn]

(12-16-2019, 09:42 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: Seems the journalists just now figured it out, obvious as it has been to the rest of us for nearly two decades.

I doubt that the journalists who actively cover that war have been duped, but most feel some obligation to support the effort or got overridden by their editors.  I know that Dexter Filkins covered it in his book The Forever War, so it has been addressed.  Mostly, it's been a case of the public refusing to listen, because it was anti-patriotic to kvetch.

[Warren Dew]

At any rate, the timing is good, as it is permitting President Trump to withdraw 4000 of the 14000 odd remaining US troops in Afghanistan without significant objection.

[David Horn]

(12-17-2019, 02:26 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: At any rate, the timing is good, as it is permitting President Trump to withdraw 4000 of the 14000 odd remaining US troops in Afghanistan without significant objection.

My single biggest issue with Trump in foreign affairs is the opaque motivation for his moves.  We know he likes dictators more than democrats, so is this part of that paradigm?  If not, then why now?  He seems to have no interest in foreign affairs except for the photo ops they generate.  On the other hand, Putin may be pushing this behind the scenes in the same way Putin and Erdogan pushed him to dump the Kurds and pull out of Syria.  Or is this an impeachment counter ploy?

[David Horn]

(12-18-2019, 10:17 PM)Kay Wrote: One of the reasons the US is collapsing now is that Americans think that decay will be stopped by becoming Fascists and Communists.

Americans think the US will be improved by expanding wars, increasing the debt, and adding more tyranny when the reason the USA is crashing is because the US has wars, is in debt, and has a police state.

Americans say that they love freedom, but then they turn around and say they need the government to give them free Obamacare, build a wall, protect the US from Yemen, wiretap their phones, arrest people for feeding the homeless, stop farmers from plowing fields, force people to get rid of dogs, ban vaping, and torture suspects.

Every country has the government it deserves.

If your point is: human beings are irrational, welcome to the club.  It's always been that way.  Understanding cause and effect requires a bit of sophistication, which tends to be lacking in the average person.  It's not a survival skill, so it's not cultivated very actively.

[pbrower2a]

(12-18-2019, 12:06 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(12-17-2019, 02:26 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: At any rate, the timing is good, as it is permitting President Trump to withdraw 4000 of the 14000 odd remaining US troops in Afghanistan without significant objection.

My single biggest issue with Trump in foreign affairs is the opaque motivation for his moves.  We know he likes dictators more than democrats, so is this part of that paradigm?  If not, then why now?  He seems to have no interest in foreign affairs except for the photo ops they generate.  On the other hand, Putin may be pushing this behind the scenes in the same way Putin and Erdogan pushed him to dump the Kurds and pull out of Syria.  Or is this an impeachment counter ploy?

Donald Trump does not understand human suffering, tragedy, or misery. He exemplifies as an example the warning of Socrates:


ἀνεξέταστος βίος οὐ βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ

(The unexamined life is an unworthy life).

At a low level it reminds us to not take easy courses of survival and self-numbing as petty criminals, drunks, or addicts. At a higher level it reminds us to examine what we do and why. Just because the rewards are more luxurious does not make ignoble behavor honorable. 

Trump claims to be brilliant (yeah, anyone who brags about his own brilliance probably isn't so), yet he has huge gaps of character. He seems unable to recognize suffering, despair, grief, and overall pain in others. He seems to admire successful gangsters more than he respects "working stiffs", including soldiers. Utterly unreflective, he offends people who must think for themselves or others. I know my faults and must act to be normal... but if I act with simulated courage often enough I will get a reputation for courage. If I simulate diligence I will not seem lazy. If I simulate generosity often enough... to be a good person I must struggle against some bad tendencies. Don't we all?

I knew enough from childhood to not mock the handicapped. There but for the Grace of God go I... any man can go to war and become disabled in war, and any person can be crippled in a vehicle crash or an industrial accident. The near-martyrdom of the naval aviator John S. McCain is nothing to mock, but instead to honor.  I know enough to stay clear of bad people such as criminals, perverts, and political extremists. People with the delusion that they can use evil people for their own ends are fools.    

[Warren Dew]

(12-18-2019, 12:06 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(12-17-2019, 02:26 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: At any rate, the timing is good, as it is permitting President Trump to withdraw 4000 of the 14000 odd remaining US troops in Afghanistan without significant objection.

My single biggest issue with Trump in foreign affairs is the opaque motivation for his moves.  We know he likes dictators more than democrats, so is this part of that paradigm?  If not, then why now?

His motivations are opaque to you only because you refuse to acknowledge any valid motivations on his part.  His motivation is completely transparent to me:  he wants to get our troops out of "s---h---" countries as fast as he can.  As illustrated by the massive blowback he got for withdrawing a mere 28 troops from the Turkish border in Syria, that isn't very fast, but he's trying.

The reason for "why now" is obvious:  with this report out on how our involvement in Afghanistan is pointless, Trump has cover to withdraw a few thousand troops instead of just a few dozen.  I wouldn't be surprised if Trump leaked the report himself.

[David Horn]

(12-19-2019, 05:04 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(12-18-2019, 12:06 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(12-17-2019, 02:26 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: At any rate, the timing is good, as it is permitting President Trump to withdraw 4000 of the 14000 odd remaining US troops in Afghanistan without significant objection.

My single biggest issue with Trump in foreign affairs is the opaque motivation for his moves.  We know he likes dictators more than democrats, so is this part of that paradigm?  If not, then why now?

His motivations are opaque to you only because you refuse to acknowledge any valid motivations on his part.  His motivation is completely transparent to me:  he wants to get our troops out of "s---h---" countries as fast as he can.  As illustrated by the massive blowback he got for withdrawing a mere 28 troops from the Turkish border in Syria, that isn't very fast, but he's trying.

The reason for "why now" is obvious:  with this report out on how our involvement in Afghanistan is pointless, Trump has cover to withdraw a few thousand troops instead of just a few dozen.  I wouldn't be surprised if Trump leaked the report himself.

Since secondary issues are unimportant to him (e.g. let the Kurds fend for themselves) and his sense of loyalty is extremely narrow, your analysis may be right.  The long term damage to our strategic alliances may suffer irreparable damage, but he'll be out of office by then.  Why should he care?

[pbrower2a]

Boring!

[random3]

How do Americans deal with hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance now?

Americans say Obama, Russia, Iran, China, and North Korea are BAD and Trump and the USA are GOOD.

Americans love tyranny and insist that they are just
victims, nothing is ever their fault, and that they are exempt from the police state.

The US is an immoral bankrupt warmongering police state and Americans
scream everything is fine, but their hands shake and their eyes twitch.

[David Horn]

(01-24-2021, 09:09 PM)random3 Wrote: How do Americans deal with hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance now?

Americans say Obama, Russia, Iran, China, and North Korea are BAD and Trump and the USA are GOOD.

Americans love tyranny and insist that they are just
victims, nothing is ever their fault, and that they are exempt from the police state.

The US is an immoral bankrupt warmongering police state and Americans
scream everything is fine, but their hands shake and their eyes twitch.

You're a broken record.  Finish your thought and find a new grove. You're getting tiresome.

[random3]

WTF?

No one cares about the big picture.

Americans used to be outraged about Bruce Jenner, Greta Thunberg, statues, Epstein, Smollett, and George Floyd.

Now Americans have lost their minds about Biden, but no one cares that the US is a bankrupt warmongering police state.