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Is this story a diametric opposition to the idea homeless want to be homeless? Do we need to redefine what it means to say "homeless"? Is it someone without walls who enjoys the "freedom" of the elements on their skin in the night? Are they demanding the government support their heroin lifestyle while providing them beds to "crash" on while high? Are they human beings that want the most basic necessity and simply fell to a level where that was no longer available to them?
Is this story fake because it's from CNN?
Is it promoting the "homeless agenda" to get you to pay for their "lifestyle" choices?
Is the story about human rights?
WHAT IS "HOMELESS"?
We should all be talking about it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An alliance of both housed and homeless people has filed a lawsuit against Los Angeles to order thousands of beds be provided for the un-sheltered.
The complaint filed Tuesday by the LA Alliance for Human Rights accuses the city of neglecting its responsibilities and investing resources in approaches that are too slow to address the homelessness problem in Los Angeles. The suit hopes to mandate that the city and county provide services for the homeless population including training, healthcare and shelter in a faster time frame.
"We really are looking to catalyze change on a systemic level," said Elizabeth Mitchell, an attorney who filed the suit on behalf of the LA Alliance for Human Rights. "We are not looking to get rich. We are not looking for money. We really are looking for change."
Los Angeles City Attorney Mike Feuer's office said it is reviewing the lawsuit and does not have a comment at this time.
Despite major investment in combating the crisis, the homeless population in Los Angeles County increased to almost 60,000 people in 2019, the Los Angeles Homeless Services Authority said in a June report.
And about 75% of those people are un-sheltered, according to the complaint. In comparison, New York City -- which has a right to shelter -- has an un-sheltered rate of 5%, Mitchell said.
"Officials in both the County and City have gone to great lengths in the last couple years to address this crisis, and their efforts are impressive and commendable; yet much more needs to be done," the suit says.
The problem, Mitchell said, is that Los Angeles City and County are investing in expensive programs like permanent housing, but with three people dying of the homelessness crisis per day the problem is outpacing their solutions.
To reach an additional 22,000 beds in a matter of months, the suit suggests that the city and county work together to explore options like shared housing, tiny houses, 3D printed homes and "other financially feasible options that enable rapid sheltering along with wrap-around services to empower those experiencing homelessness to reintegrate with their communities," Mitchell said in a press release.
The suit began as a grassroots effort. Downtown residents formed the LA Alliance for Human Rights last summer in response to the suffering around them and in hopes of finding new ways to "break through the barriers," the release said.
Instead of fighting through bureaucracies, the movement turned to the courts -- a system that could move more quickly and provide outside accountability, Mitchell said.
Speed is important in an issue that has economic, environmental and criminal impacts on the area, but Mitchell said everyone involved is concerned about the issue from a humanitarian perspective.
"Whether a person is on the streets of their own accord or because they lost their jobs, people can still say this shouldn't be the case and we shouldn't be leaving our people in the streets," Mitchell said.
- By Madeline Holcombe, CNN Reporter
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The problem with housing in California is simple really. There is too little for too many and bad land use practice in the past has made creating more very hard and very expensive -- except where no one wants to live. There's a lot of nothing in the high desert, but jobs are nonexistent there too. I guess everyone can join the armed service of choice, and spend time at China Lake, 29 Palms, Fort Irwin or Vandenberg AFB -- among a host of others. San Francisco, San Jose, LA and Sa Diego, on the other hand, are booked up, and the cost to live any of those places is more than these homeless folks can ever afford … but the jobs are there!
This is why California is losing population. 40 Million is just too many anyway.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
Posts: 384
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Joined: May 2018
03-12-2020, 08:09 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2020, 08:12 PM by TheNomad.)
(03-12-2020, 05:07 PM)David Horn Wrote: The problem with housing in California is simple really. There is too little for too many and bad land use practice in the past has made creating more very hard and very expensive -- except where no one wants to live. There's a lot of nothing in the high desert, but jobs are nonexistent there too. I guess everyone can join the armed service of choice, and spend time at China Lake, 29 Palms, Fort Irwin or Vandenberg AFB -- among a host of others. San Francisco, San Jose, LA and Sa Diego, on the other hand, are booked up, and the cost to live any of those places is more than these homeless folks can ever afford … but the jobs are there!
This is why California is losing population. 40 Million is just too many anyway.
Sharing personally, we all here should know meta solutions to these things. We are living in the time when everything needs to be torn down and remade. Patches and band-aids will not work. It's a time for ideas looking forward to a new thing, not preserving the old one.
Mayor Pete was the only person close to expressing an ideology for a 4th Turning solution.
Pete was about looking backward to Great Depression I (as opposed to the one we are in now, GDII) and he saw an answer to this by government creating employment situations that are not, right now, being seen as viable.
He talked about employing the many who never recovered from 2008+ and said "we can put these people to work by investing in American infrastructure." Is this some kind of revolutionary idea? I guess it is for those who are not learning from the past. America rose from GDI not by lulling compliance about "ok, let's just accept all these people without walls as OK and move on".
Well, no. So many people were pushed out of the workforce by OLD jobs like manufacturing passing away. They don't exist and that person has no other skills and is 45-50-60+yo and just moved in with family and fell off the radar. Another had a very specific skill and training and work history, and his job went to India, he has no other skill, he received unemployment for as long as it lasted, then moved out of apartment to live with sister.
*by the way, when someone exits the "workforce", their presence as American Job Force becomes invisible. They simply are no longer counted as being part of the number. Then, a president says "look, we have the lowest unemployment rate in the history of mankind" but all these "shadow people" who never returned to the workforce are invisible. That number is not real.
What would happen if the crumbling roads and bridges were addressed? They were built back in the time of GDI by people who were mass unemployed and then were put to work. The infrastructure was built, people had jobs, they could afford rent/mortgage. Pete was the only person coming close to this concept.
Home Health Aides. People are already caring for sick and elderly family. Why not EMPLOY them to do so? It can't happen until healthcare is fixed.
This time of Crisis is not easily addressed. But we, here, should know better. I'm still shocked there will be two ancient men vying for power over America, and neither one is looking to the future. Both are relics of what once was.
We know this will all be washed away. What can we do to help that come faster? I feel like, we have to open our minds to change and be available to that concept. Many say they are but I'm not sure.
What happens when so many ppl living on the streets right now are offered the opportunity to work for a government program where it also invests in our infrastructure in the myriad of ways we need right now? What happens is, they work, they are able to rent/mortgage, they spend money, the Economy moves.
Why can no one see we have a blocked bowel and that thing is gonna hurt until it's pushed the f out already. Flush it already.
I'm saying resistance to change is why these problems remain and linger.
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(03-12-2020, 03:04 PM)TheNomad Wrote: Is this story a diametric opposition to the idea homeless want to be homeless? Do we need to redefine what it means to say "homeless"? Is it someone without walls who enjoys the "freedom" of the elements on their skin in the night? Are they demanding the government support their heroin lifestyle while providing them beds to "crash" on while high? Are they human beings that want the most basic necessity and simply fell to a level where that was no longer available to them?
Is this story fake because it's from CNN?
Is it promoting the "homeless agenda" to get you to pay for their "lifestyle" choices?
Is the story about human rights?
WHAT IS "HOMELESS"?
We should all be talking about it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An alliance of both housed and homeless people has filed a lawsuit against Los Angeles to order thousands of beds be provided for the un-sheltered.
The complaint filed Tuesday by the LA Alliance for Human Rights accuses the city of neglecting its responsibilities and investing resources in approaches that are too slow to address the homelessness problem in Los Angeles. The suit hopes to mandate that the city and county provide services for the homeless population including training, healthcare and shelter in a faster time frame.
"We really are looking to catalyze change on a systemic level," said Elizabeth Mitchell, an attorney who filed the suit on behalf of the LA Alliance for Human Rights. "We are not looking to get rich. We are not looking for money. We really are looking for change."
Los Angeles City Attorney Mike Feuer's office said it is reviewing the lawsuit and does not have a comment at this time.
Despite major investment in combating the crisis, the homeless population in Los Angeles County increased to almost 60,000 people in 2019, the Los Angeles Homeless Services Authority said in a June report.
And about 75% of those people are un-sheltered, according to the complaint. In comparison, New York City -- which has a right to shelter -- has an un-sheltered rate of 5%, Mitchell said.
"Officials in both the County and City have gone to great lengths in the last couple years to address this crisis, and their efforts are impressive and commendable; yet much more needs to be done," the suit says.
The problem, Mitchell said, is that Los Angeles City and County are investing in expensive programs like permanent housing, but with three people dying of the homelessness crisis per day the problem is outpacing their solutions.
To reach an additional 22,000 beds in a matter of months, the suit suggests that the city and county work together to explore options like shared housing, tiny houses, 3D printed homes and "other financially feasible options that enable rapid sheltering along with wrap-around services to empower those experiencing homelessness to reintegrate with their communities," Mitchell said in a press release.
The suit began as a grassroots effort. Downtown residents formed the LA Alliance for Human Rights last summer in response to the suffering around them and in hopes of finding new ways to "break through the barriers," the release said.
Instead of fighting through bureaucracies, the movement turned to the courts -- a system that could move more quickly and provide outside accountability, Mitchell said.
Speed is important in an issue that has economic, environmental and criminal impacts on the area, but Mitchell said everyone involved is concerned about the issue from a humanitarian perspective.
"Whether a person is on the streets of their own accord or because they lost their jobs, people can still say this shouldn't be the case and we shouldn't be leaving our people in the streets," Mitchell said.
- By Madeline Holcombe, CNN Reporter
If there is any positive in this, it is that homeless I'm the LA area don't have to endure the bitter cold winters like folks in most of the rest of the country do.
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(03-12-2020, 08:20 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: (03-12-2020, 03:04 PM)TheNomad Wrote: Is this story a diametric opposition to the idea homeless want to be homeless? Do we need to redefine what it means to say "homeless"? Is it someone without walls who enjoys the "freedom" of the elements on their skin in the night? Are they demanding the government support their heroin lifestyle while providing them beds to "crash" on while high? Are they human beings that want the most basic necessity and simply fell to a level where that was no longer available to them?
Is this story fake because it's from CNN?
Is it promoting the "homeless agenda" to get you to pay for their "lifestyle" choices?
Is the story about human rights?
WHAT IS "HOMELESS"?
We should all be talking about it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An alliance of both housed and homeless people has filed a lawsuit against Los Angeles to order thousands of beds be provided for the un-sheltered.
The complaint filed Tuesday by the LA Alliance for Human Rights accuses the city of neglecting its responsibilities and investing resources in approaches that are too slow to address the homelessness problem in Los Angeles. The suit hopes to mandate that the city and county provide services for the homeless population including training, healthcare and shelter in a faster time frame.
"We really are looking to catalyze change on a systemic level," said Elizabeth Mitchell, an attorney who filed the suit on behalf of the LA Alliance for Human Rights. "We are not looking to get rich. We are not looking for money. We really are looking for change."
Los Angeles City Attorney Mike Feuer's office said it is reviewing the lawsuit and does not have a comment at this time.
Despite major investment in combating the crisis, the homeless population in Los Angeles County increased to almost 60,000 people in 2019, the Los Angeles Homeless Services Authority said in a June report.
And about 75% of those people are un-sheltered, according to the complaint. In comparison, New York City -- which has a right to shelter -- has an un-sheltered rate of 5%, Mitchell said.
"Officials in both the County and City have gone to great lengths in the last couple years to address this crisis, and their efforts are impressive and commendable; yet much more needs to be done," the suit says.
The problem, Mitchell said, is that Los Angeles City and County are investing in expensive programs like permanent housing, but with three people dying of the homelessness crisis per day the problem is outpacing their solutions.
To reach an additional 22,000 beds in a matter of months, the suit suggests that the city and county work together to explore options like shared housing, tiny houses, 3D printed homes and "other financially feasible options that enable rapid sheltering along with wrap-around services to empower those experiencing homelessness to reintegrate with their communities," Mitchell said in a press release.
The suit began as a grassroots effort. Downtown residents formed the LA Alliance for Human Rights last summer in response to the suffering around them and in hopes of finding new ways to "break through the barriers," the release said.
Instead of fighting through bureaucracies, the movement turned to the courts -- a system that could move more quickly and provide outside accountability, Mitchell said.
Speed is important in an issue that has economic, environmental and criminal impacts on the area, but Mitchell said everyone involved is concerned about the issue from a humanitarian perspective.
"Whether a person is on the streets of their own accord or because they lost their jobs, people can still say this shouldn't be the case and we shouldn't be leaving our people in the streets," Mitchell said.
- By Madeline Holcombe, CNN Reporter
If there is any positive in this, it is that homeless I'm the LA area don't have to endure the bitter cold winters like folks in most of the rest of the country do.
That is something only a well-preserved soul might say. The most gruesome thing I have ever seen was a man lying in the grass, his feet were swollen and black. From the brief look, his feet were being consumed by diabetes and probably need to be amputated.
But it was 72 and sunny.
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(03-12-2020, 08:09 PM)TheNomad Wrote: (03-12-2020, 05:07 PM)David Horn Wrote: The problem with housing in California is simple really. There is too little for too many and bad land use practice in the past has made creating more very hard and very expensive -- except where no one wants to live. There's a lot of nothing in the high desert, but jobs are nonexistent there too. I guess everyone can join the armed service of choice, and spend time at China Lake, 29 Palms, Fort Irwin or Vandenberg AFB -- among a host of others. San Francisco, San Jose, LA and Sa Diego, on the other hand, are booked up, and the cost to live any of those places is more than these homeless folks can ever afford … but the jobs are there!
This is why California is losing population. 40 Million is just too many anyway.
Sharing personally, we all here should know meta solutions to these things. We are living in the time when everything needs to be torn down and remade. Patches and band-aids will not work. It's a time for ideas looking forward to a new thing, not preserving the old one.
Mayor Pete was the only person close to expressing an ideology for a 4th Turning solution.
Pete was about looking backward to Great Depression I (as opposed to the one we are in now, GDII) and he saw an answer to this by government creating employment situations that are not, right now, being seen as viable.
He talked about employing the many who never recovered from 2008+ and said "we can put these people to work by investing in American infrastructure." Is this some kind of revolutionary idea? I guess it is for those who are not learning from the past. America rose from GDI not by lulling compliance about "ok, let's just accept all these people without walls as OK and move on".
Well, no. So many people were pushed out of the workforce by OLD jobs like manufacturing passing away. They don't exist and that person has no other skills and is 45-50-60+yo and just moved in with family and fell off the radar. Another had a very specific skill and training and work history, and his job went to India, he has no other skill, he received unemployment for as long as it lasted, then moved out of apartment to live with sister.
*by the way, when someone exits the "workforce", their presence as American Job Force becomes invisible. They simply are no longer counted as being part of the number. Then, a president says "look, we have the lowest unemployment rate in the history of mankind" but all these "shadow people" who never returned to the workforce are invisible. That number is not real.
What would happen if the crumbling roads and bridges were addressed? They were built back in the time of GDI by people who were mass unemployed and then were put to work. The infrastructure was built, people had jobs, they could afford rent/mortgage. Pete was the only person coming close to this concept.
Home Health Aides. People are already caring for sick and elderly family. Why not EMPLOY them to do so? It can't happen until healthcare is fixed.
This time of Crisis is not easily addressed. But we, here, should know better. I'm still shocked there will be two ancient men vying for power over America, and neither one is looking to the future. Both are relics of what once was.
We know this will all be washed away. What can we do to help that come faster? I feel like, we have to open our minds to change and be available to that concept. Many say they are but I'm not sure.
What happens when so many ppl living on the streets right now are offered the opportunity to work for a government program where it also invests in our infrastructure in the myriad of ways we need right now? What happens is, they work, they are able to rent/mortgage, they spend money, the Economy moves.
Why can no one see we have a blocked bowel and that thing is gonna hurt until it's pushed the f out already. Flush it already.
I'm saying resistance to change is why these problems remain and linger.
Agreed that we have many people in the shadow workforce who are not working "a job", but are contributing nonetheless. They also tend to be underpaid and unsupported by the social structures of the country. The government is the correct go-to for help, but some of that help will involve encouraging and assisting people to relocate. Many of those who are able to do so are doing it on their own.
Then there is the issue of job skills. We can't run a country with transitory jobs and mandatory retraining every 10 years of so. People aren't built that way. We need to create generic skill sets that fit a variety of jobs, and force employers to fit the job to the worker, not the other way around. The coronavirus pandemic may actually force that to happen.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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(03-13-2020, 09:55 AM)David Horn Wrote: (03-12-2020, 08:09 PM)TheNomad Wrote: (03-12-2020, 05:07 PM)David Horn Wrote: The problem with housing in California is simple really. There is too little for too many and bad land use practice in the past has made creating more very hard and very expensive -- except where no one wants to live. There's a lot of nothing in the high desert, but jobs are nonexistent there too. I guess everyone can join the armed service of choice, and spend time at China Lake, 29 Palms, Fort Irwin or Vandenberg AFB -- among a host of others. San Francisco, San Jose, LA and Sa Diego, on the other hand, are booked up, and the cost to live any of those places is more than these homeless folks can ever afford … but the jobs are there!
This is why California is losing population. 40 Million is just too many anyway.
Sharing personally, we all here should know meta solutions to these things. We are living in the time when everything needs to be torn down and remade. Patches and band-aids will not work. It's a time for ideas looking forward to a new thing, not preserving the old one.
Mayor Pete was the only person close to expressing an ideology for a 4th Turning solution.
Pete was about looking backward to Great Depression I (as opposed to the one we are in now, GDII) and he saw an answer to this by government creating employment situations that are not, right now, being seen as viable.
He talked about employing the many who never recovered from 2008+ and said "we can put these people to work by investing in American infrastructure." Is this some kind of revolutionary idea? I guess it is for those who are not learning from the past. America rose from GDI not by lulling compliance about "ok, let's just accept all these people without walls as OK and move on".
Well, no. So many people were pushed out of the workforce by OLD jobs like manufacturing passing away. They don't exist and that person has no other skills and is 45-50-60+yo and just moved in with family and fell off the radar. Another had a very specific skill and training and work history, and his job went to India, he has no other skill, he received unemployment for as long as it lasted, then moved out of apartment to live with sister.
*by the way, when someone exits the "workforce", their presence as American Job Force becomes invisible. They simply are no longer counted as being part of the number. Then, a president says "look, we have the lowest unemployment rate in the history of mankind" but all these "shadow people" who never returned to the workforce are invisible. That number is not real.
What would happen if the crumbling roads and bridges were addressed? They were built back in the time of GDI by people who were mass unemployed and then were put to work. The infrastructure was built, people had jobs, they could afford rent/mortgage. Pete was the only person coming close to this concept.
Home Health Aides. People are already caring for sick and elderly family. Why not EMPLOY them to do so? It can't happen until healthcare is fixed.
This time of Crisis is not easily addressed. But we, here, should know better. I'm still shocked there will be two ancient men vying for power over America, and neither one is looking to the future. Both are relics of what once was.
We know this will all be washed away. What can we do to help that come faster? I feel like, we have to open our minds to change and be available to that concept. Many say they are but I'm not sure.
What happens when so many ppl living on the streets right now are offered the opportunity to work for a government program where it also invests in our infrastructure in the myriad of ways we need right now? What happens is, they work, they are able to rent/mortgage, they spend money, the Economy moves.
Why can no one see we have a blocked bowel and that thing is gonna hurt until it's pushed the f out already. Flush it already.
I'm saying resistance to change is why these problems remain and linger.
Agreed that we have many people in the shadow workforce who are not working "a job", but are contributing nonetheless. They also tend to be underpaid and unsupported by the social structures of the country. The government is the correct go-to for help, but some of that help will involve encouraging and assisting people to relocate. Many of those who are able to do so are doing it on their own.
Big Business has been able to exploit a labor surplus for about forty years with lower real pay but longer commutes (more consumption of fossil fuels) and higher rents. People are spending more money but getting no more joy out of it. At some point production overshoots consumption, savings vanish because people are living hand-to-mouth, and such a fundamental change in the economy as the end of scarcity of manufactured goods makes a crash certain. Making stuff used to be one of the most reliable ways of making a good living, but that may be over.
Quote:Then there is the issue of job skills. We can't run a country with transitory jobs and mandatory retraining every 10 years of so. People aren't built that way. We need to create generic skill sets that fit a variety of jobs, and force employers to fit the job to the worker, not the other way around. The coronavirus pandemic may actually force that to happen.
We are going to need to get jobs moving to once-prosperous cities that have fallen on hard times so that people do not have to spend 70% of their after-tax income in California, Boston, Washington, or New York City. The current plutocracy that generates profits but no happiness must either change its ways or come to an end.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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