And I put my head down and work. (a millenial's perspective)

[David Horn]

(05-13-2020, 01:19 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Globalism is of course the ultimate vector for spread.   Just think of all of those flying aluminum petri dishes criss crossing the whole world.  As Rags always says, the next pandemic is only 1 airplane ride away.  Globalism and Neoliberalism also left the US as a sitting duck. Shitty public health and folks in fear of a huge medical bill make's some shy away from getting tested.

So, I await for the 2nd wave. It's gonna be a doozy...

This may be too true. We're Americans. We never do the right thing until we're forced to do it.

[Kinser79]

(05-13-2020, 01:22 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(05-12-2020, 06:29 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(05-07-2020, 09:50 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(05-06-2020, 05:03 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: As a customer I try to shame people without masks... and I praise people for wearing them. Maybe we can do that. I got mine for donating blood at a Red Cross blood drive.  Carrot and stick -- try to be nice overall.

It's a sad commentary that the issue of mask wearing is now partisan.  Why it's considered bad by Republicans and others in the Red camp is amazing, in and of itself.  That it's considered an affront to the Orange One and a sign of true bravado is a level of cult fanaticism that's new to me.  I guess it goes with drinking bleach.  

I would argue that the making partisan of mask wearing is coming solely from the Blues.  This COVID-19 is about as deadly as the flu meaning unless you aren't already dying of something you're perfectly safe from it.

The latest scare of toxic shock in children exposed to the virus is probably a overreaction by their immune systems because their foolish parents didn't permit them to develop their own immune system naturally.  See all the other allergies people seem to be having these days.

Finally the idea behind the masks anyway is to prevent you from spreading the virus if you have it, not to prevent you from getting it.

Like your mentor, you seem totally at ease practicing medicine without a license.  Carry on. 

I suppose it is too late to suggest that you ingest disinfectant.  That being said I can read statistics and do maths, I also know a little something about viruses and medicine having a RN for a mother.  Covid-19 is very very very over hyped.

As for the second wave...I hope it wipes out all those foolish enough to agree to be locked down "for their own good".

But I'll leave you with this little ditty from the last President we had that was halfway decent before Trump:

[Bob Butler 54]

(05-13-2020, 04:22 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: As for the second wave...I hope it wipes out all those foolish enough to agree to be locked down "for their own good".

The people and areas that are not taking precautions are more likely to get hurt.  Alas, they will share the hot spots with their community.  This will become clear enough in time.  It seems likely to doom the  fantasies that you can ignore the science and solve problems by claiming they are fake news or hoaxes.

[Kinser79]

(05-13-2020, 05:12 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(05-13-2020, 04:22 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: As for the second wave...I hope it wipes out all those foolish enough to agree to be locked down "for their own good".

The people and areas that are not taking precautions are more likely to get hurt.  Alas, they will share the hot spots with their community.  This will become clear enough in time.  It seems likely to doom the  fantasies that you can ignore the science and solve problems by claiming they are fake news or hoaxes.

You have to define what is and is not taking precautions.  Washing hands and not licking public spaces is probably a sensible precaution.  Locking down the country and demanding everyone stand at least two meters apart under penalty of law is both despotic and idiotic.  

Given that the WHO (whose opinion is pretty much irrelevant anyway because the entire UN is corrupt as all hell) has recently endorsed the Swedish model of not locking down and taking those "sensible precautions" I mentioned I think that those who aren't bothering to panic over essentially nothing will be just fine.  Those who are too scared to get their infection now and their immunity from it now will pay for it later, and pay for it when it is old old old news and no one will care.

But perhaps I should let Styx explain.

[Bob Butler 54]

(05-13-2020, 11:30 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: You have to define what is and is not taking precautions.  Washing hands and not licking public spaces is probably a sensible precaution.  Locking down the country and demanding everyone stand at least two meters apart under penalty of law is both despotic and idiotic.  

Some people just value money over lives, themselves over others.

[Kinser79]

(05-14-2020, 02:18 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(05-13-2020, 11:30 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: You have to define what is and is not taking precautions.  Washing hands and not licking public spaces is probably a sensible precaution.  Locking down the country and demanding everyone stand at least two meters apart under penalty of law is both despotic and idiotic.  

Some people just value money over lives, themselves over others.

Or conversely some people understand that they cannot live without money.  It is easy to be judgmental (not that boomers would cease being judgmental in any case) of others when your bread is paid for by a state hand out.  For those of us who eat by the sweat of our brow have a different opinion.

I'm fortunate in that I was able to continue running the drive thru and expand al fresco dining options.  Other restaurateurs may not have that option.

[Bob Butler 54]

There is reopening as New York is, according to the numbers, according to the science, after you have things under control. Then there is reopening like Texas and other states are, while they have curves still going up, hospitals already heading towards overload. The former style is necessary. The latter suicidal.

I do approve of opening up with a little thought, as you do. If you can keep a reasonable set of precautions going, do so.

[Kinser79]

Do you have an actual source for your statement?

Quote:Texas and other states are, while they have curves still going up, hospitals already heading towards overload.

I don't know about Texas but Georgia, which has been heavily criticized, the infection rate is essentially flat. But then again the governor is also still encouraging people to wash their hands and wear masks WHILE going about their business.

One should also not discount the major differences between how different governors are treated. Andrew Carona Cuomo is being treated with kid gloves where as D'Santis in Florida is not by the media.

[Bob Butler 54]

(05-15-2020, 05:32 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Do you have an actual source for your statement?

Quote:Texas and other states are, while they have curves still going up, hospitals already heading towards overload.

I don't know about Texas but Georgia, which has been heavily criticized, the infection rate is essentially flat.  But then again the governor is also still encouraging people to wash their hands and wear masks WHILE going about their business.

One should also not discount the major differences between how different governors are treated.  Andrew Carona Cuomo is being treated with kid gloves where as D'Santis in Florida is not by the media.

Rachel Maddow of MSNBC put up the curves for various states last night.  Apparently the curve for New York is going down.  New York was so big and so early that if you don't count New York as part of the rest of America, the rest of America is going up.  The states that are opening in spite of their curves going up and hospitals heading for overload get Rachel's usual line these days, said with heavy irony.  "Sure.  Why not?"  My tendency to look at meat plants, nursing homes and prisons as the center of outbreaks, soon to spread to the population, comes from her.  I suppose the next step is that it spreads from counties who have these problematic facilities to their neighbors.  It seems rather too late to stop the process.

The various governors are being treated well or poorly according to how close they are adhering to the science.  The general public seems to be of the take it seriously school.  If you are anywhere close to the CDC advice, both the blue media and the people treat you well.  If you don't, the coastal press treatment and the approval poll numbers go to pot.

Cuomo was one of the guests last night.  He said one of the biggest things he wishes he could do differently is that while he was looking at China, the bug was coming in from Europe.  He also said that the bug has always been ahead.  There has never been a moment when he has taken too heavy a set of precautions.

I suspect letting the people follow the advice of the doctors might come close to working if that were the dominant form of advice.  Trump and Fox lie.  People respond as if the lies are true.  Some look only at their own odds, not at their community's.  As a result the honest attempt at saving lives is treated as tyranny by the ignorant and selfish.

[Kinser79]

Rachel Maddow is not a reliable source.

And Cuomo of course was treated with kid gloves since he is Dimocrat Royalty. Funny he didn't seem to think that if he regetted anything it was sending Covid positive seniors back to their nursing homes which is something D'Santis stopped in its tracks down here.

I would also point out that when comparing states we should compare apples to apples. Florida and New York (except for politically) would be a good comparison. New York to other states not so much.

Also I don't listen to Fox that much. Tucker Carlson is good but otherwise Fox is pretty much shit, it is in my view pretty much the same thing as MSDNC except for the Republicans. I would suggest not paying much attention to the legacy media. Though Breitbart is fairly decent.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/...-scrutiny/

I will admit to being slightly biased in favor of my governor. Of course he is a Freedom Caucus Republican and an Xer.

[Bob Butler 54]

(05-15-2020, 07:37 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Rachel Maddow is not a reliable source.  

Got a few examples of her getting it wrong? They would have to be checkable. I think you know how I would rate you as a source.

[David Horn]

(05-15-2020, 09:04 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(05-15-2020, 07:37 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Rachel Maddow is not a reliable source.  

Got a few examples of her getting it wrong?  They would have to be checkable.  I think you know how I would rate you as a source.

Look up this thread at the YouTube video he posted …  one by his favorite antagonist.  There's your answer.  The arrival of the "fake news" meme has killed the entire idea of truth and lies.  If a lie is the truth, then we're all screwed.

[Kinser79]

(05-15-2020, 09:04 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(05-15-2020, 07:37 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Rachel Maddow is not a reliable source.  

Got a few examples of her getting it wrong?  They would have to be checkable.  I think you know how I would rate you as a source.

So-Called Russiagate for the last three years is a prime example.  Maddow is a known partisan hack.

[Kinser79]

(05-16-2020, 08:24 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(05-15-2020, 09:04 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(05-15-2020, 07:37 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Rachel Maddow is not a reliable source.  

Got a few examples of her getting it wrong?  They would have to be checkable.  I think you know how I would rate you as a source.

Look up this thread at the YouTube video he posted …  one by his favorite antagonist.  There's your answer.  The arrival of the "fake news" meme has killed the entire idea of truth and lies.  If a lie is the truth, then we're all screwed.

CNN and MSDNC are not just fake news they are Very Fake news.  And it is hardly a meme.  It is a reality.  Unfortunately most Americans consider the proper term--Propaganda--to be a pejorative.

[David Horn]

(05-16-2020, 10:20 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(05-16-2020, 08:24 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(05-15-2020, 09:04 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(05-15-2020, 07:37 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Rachel Maddow is not a reliable source.  

Got a few examples of her getting it wrong?  They would have to be checkable.  I think you know how I would rate you as a source.

Look up this thread at the YouTube video he posted …  one by his favorite antagonist.  There's your answer.  The arrival of the "fake news" meme has killed the entire idea of truth and lies.  If a lie is the truth, then we're all screwed.

CNN and MSDNC are not just fake news they are Very Fake news.  And it is hardly a meme.  It is a reality.  Unfortunately most Americans consider the proper term--Propaganda--to be a pejorative.

Thank you for making my point.  No, there are no perfect news sources, but sources that tend toward 100% inaccuracy aren't news sources.  They're propaganda.  MSNBC and CNN aren't on that list, but everyone on Fox and talkers like Rush Limbaugh certainly are.  All have backed Trump's ducking and weaving where they say he said X and video tape of live events show the exact opposite.  That's how propaganda sources work, in case you forgot from your Marxist-Stalinist days.

[Bob Butler 54]

(05-16-2020, 10:20 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: CNN and MSDNC are not just fake news they are Very Fake news.  And it is hardly a meme.  It is a reality.  Unfortunately most Americans consider the proper term--Propaganda--to be a pejorative.

That is not something I can trace.  Try pointing at something Rachel said that is false.  Such must exist.  You can't put so much before the people without missing occasionally.  You have a long way to go before you convince anyone she is a questionable source.  

As is, it is only something reported by an extremely distrusted source.  Propaganda, if you will.

[Ragnarök_62]

(05-15-2020, 07:37 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

Quote:Rachel Maddow is not a reliable source.  

And Cuomo of course was treated with kid gloves since he is Dimocrat Royalty.  Funny he didn't seem to think that if he regetted anything it was sending Covid positive seniors back to their nursing homes which is something D'Santis stopped in its tracks down here.

True enough.  The Russia! Russia! Russia! stuff is rubbish.

<snip>

Quote:Also I don't listen to Fox that much.  Tucker Carlson is good but otherwise Fox is pretty much shit, it is in my view pretty much the same thing as MSDNC except for the Republicans.  I would suggest not paying much attention to the legacy media.  Though Breitbart is fairly decent.

This is where the Republicans suck.   I don't care about Iran! Iran! Iran! either. Tucker seems a bit less crazy about this. However, Iran Bad = meh, whatever, never mind.

Quote:https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/...-scrutiny/

I don't do Breitbart.  Do they diss Iran/and or China?

Quote:I will admit to being slightly biased in favor of my governor.  Of course he is a Freedom Caucus Republican and an Xer.

You're your own man, ok.   I'm more at the burn, baby, burn.  I think MMT is good. If all the fat fuck cats are getting some swag, well, Rags deserves his cut. If the Dems swag me some free healthcare, fewer oligopolies, and don't fuck with my Social Security /Medicare which is due in 4/7 years. That's good enough.   Trump ain't Orange Man Bad. Tariffs good, EU screw off good, attempts at chucking wars good.   Trump's economic, worker's rights, and Iran hangup, bad.

[Kinser79]

(05-17-2020, 06:27 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(05-16-2020, 10:20 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(05-16-2020, 08:24 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(05-15-2020, 09:04 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(05-15-2020, 07:37 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Rachel Maddow is not a reliable source.  

Got a few examples of her getting it wrong?  They would have to be checkable.  I think you know how I would rate you as a source.

Look up this thread at the YouTube video he posted …  one by his favorite antagonist.  There's your answer.  The arrival of the "fake news" meme has killed the entire idea of truth and lies.  If a lie is the truth, then we're all screwed.

CNN and MSDNC are not just fake news they are Very Fake news.  And it is hardly a meme.  It is a reality.  Unfortunately most Americans consider the proper term--Propaganda--to be a pejorative.

Thank you for making my point.  No, there are no perfect news sources, but sources that tend toward 100% inaccuracy aren't news sources.  They're propaganda.  MSNBC and CNN aren't on that list, but everyone on Fox and talkers like Rush Limbaugh certainly are.  All have backed Trump's ducking and weaving where they say he said X and video tape of live events show the exact opposite.  That's how propaganda sources work, in case you forgot from your Marxist-Stalinist days.

MSNBC and CNN aren't?  Where have you been the last four years at least?  

I'm well aware of how propaganda works Mr. Horn which is why I'm not very susceptible to it.  Also "Stalinism" doesn't exist as such.  Rather it is Marxism-Leninism, but then again that is mostly an intellectual quibble.

[Kinser79]

(05-17-2020, 06:52 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(05-15-2020, 07:37 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

Quote:Rachel Maddow is not a reliable source.  

And Cuomo of course was treated with kid gloves since he is Dimocrat Royalty.  Funny he didn't seem to think that if he regetted anything it was sending Covid positive seniors back to their nursing homes which is something D'Santis stopped in its tracks down here.

True enough.  The Russia! Russia! Russia! stuff is rubbish.

<snip>

Quote:Also I don't listen to Fox that much.  Tucker Carlson is good but otherwise Fox is pretty much shit, it is in my view pretty much the same thing as MSDNC except for the Republicans.  I would suggest not paying much attention to the legacy media.  Though Breitbart is fairly decent.

This is where the Republicans suck.   I don't care about Iran! Iran! Iran! either. Tucker seems a bit less crazy about this. However, Iran Bad = meh, whatever, never mind.

Quote:https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/...-scrutiny/

I don't do Breitbart.  Do they diss Iran/and or China?

Quote:I will admit to being slightly biased in favor of my governor.  Of course he is a Freedom Caucus Republican and an Xer.

You're your own man, ok.   I'm more at the burn, baby, burn.  I think MMT is good. If all the fat fuck cats are getting some swag, well, Rags deserves his cut. If the Dems swag me some free healthcare, fewer oligopolies, and don't fuck with my Social Security /Medicare which is due in 4/7 years. That's good enough.   Trump ain't Orange Man Bad. Tariffs good, EU screw off good, attempts at chucking wars good.   Trump's economic, worker's rights, and Iran hangup, bad.

Indeed, anyone who isn't totally asleep or living in their own reality, remembers the last few years how Maddow in particular brought up Russia every single episode.  At one point she was sorta credible (I mean it was known she favored Democrats heavily but it could be argued that she at least attempted to be more or less objective) but she wasted that credibility looking for Russians under every bed and every closet in the White House.

At most the Democrats have demonstrated that Flynn, who was a Senior Official for the then President Elect spoke with the Russian Ambassador, which is hardly surprising that he would do so.   As a Chief Security Advisor I would think it Part Of His Job to talk to the top diplomats from other countries.

Iran is a threat to Saudi Arabia and not much else.  The Republicans who care about that are usually involved in the Neocon faction which is decamping to the Democrats, which is from whence they came anyway.

Breitbart is highly critical of China, and with good reason.  China is perhaps the greatest existential threat to the US at this point.  However, there it will be more trade war than war war.

I'm wary of "free" goodies and I'm skeptical of MMT except perhaps as a means to debauch the currency and to end the Fed and other unnecessary and unconstitutional programs and policies.  That being said if you want Cash Payments the Fed can and will currently garuntee all cash payments and benefits.  They won't guarantee however the purchasing power of those payments and benefits.

[Ragnarök_62]

(05-17-2020, 07:26 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(05-17-2020, 06:52 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(05-15-2020, 07:37 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

Quote:Rachel Maddow is not a reliable source.  

And Cuomo of course was treated with kid gloves since he is Dimocrat Royalty.  Funny he didn't seem to think that if he regetted anything it was sending Covid positive seniors back to their nursing homes which is something D'Santis stopped in its tracks down here.

True enough.  The Russia! Russia! Russia! stuff is rubbish.

<snip>

Quote:Also I don't listen to Fox that much.  Tucker Carlson is good but otherwise Fox is pretty much shit, it is in my view pretty much the same thing as MSDNC except for the Republicans.  I would suggest not paying much attention to the legacy media.  Though Breitbart is fairly decent.

This is where the Republicans suck.   I don't care about Iran! Iran! Iran! either. Tucker seems a bit less crazy about this. However, Iran Bad = meh, whatever, never mind.

Quote:https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/...-scrutiny/

I don't do Breitbart.  Do they diss Iran/and or China?

Quote:I will admit to being slightly biased in favor of my governor.  Of course he is a Freedom Caucus Republican and an Xer.

You're your own man, ok.   I'm more at the burn, baby, burn.  I think MMT is good. If all the fat fuck cats are getting some swag, well, Rags deserves his cut. If the Dems swag me some free healthcare, fewer oligopolies, and don't fuck with my Social Security /Medicare which is due in 4/7 years. That's good enough.   Trump ain't Orange Man Bad. Tariffs good, EU screw off good, attempts at chucking wars good.   Trump's economic, worker's rights, and Iran hangup, bad.

Indeed, anyone who isn't totally asleep or living in their own reality, remembers the last few years how Maddow in particular brought up Russia every single episode.  At one point she was sorta credible (I mean it was known she favored Democrats heavily but it could be argued that she at least attempted to be more or less objective) but she wasted that credibility looking for Russians under every bed and every closet in the White House.

At most the Democrats have demonstrated that Flynn, who was a Senior Official for the then President Elect spoke with the Russian Ambassador, which is hardly surprising that he would do so.   As a Chief Security Advisor I would think it Part Of His Job to talk to the top diplomats from other countries.

Iran is a threat to Saudi Arabia and not much else.  The Republicans who care about that are usually involved in the Neocon faction which is decamping to the Democrats, which is from whence they came anyway.

Breitbart is highly critical of China, and with good reason.  China is perhaps the greatest existential threat to the US at this point.  However, there it will be more trade war than war war.

I'm wary of "free" goodies and I'm skeptical of MMT except perhaps as a means to debauch the currency and to end the Fed and other unnecessary and unconstitutional programs and policies.  That being said if you want Cash Payments the Fed can and will currently garuntee all cash payments and benefits.  They won't guarantee however the purchasing power of those payments and benefits.

As for China, here's my 2 cents.  Neoliberalism was the impetus for the rise of China. After all, China didn't put a gun to corporate America in order for the jobs/factories to leave. Trump has it right wrt. tarrifs, but he's wrong on not blaming greedy fat cats. They shipped the jobs, they shipped the factories, and they have too much money and power.  So, that's why the US needs to bring back the 1960's tax rates.  The jobs need to come to the US, not some other cheap place like Vietnam or Mexico.

I think Social Security can be fixed by popping the cap and some other tax like a Tobin tax.  Medicare is a whole other issue. I'
Free market principles like repealing all rules and regulations that are propping up our Medical oligarchy.  Medical facilities need to advertise their stuff. IOW, medical shit should be regulated like food.  The FDA can still do this without playing favors. The FDA also needs to test herbs and see how those work.  That should reduce the price of Medicare. I'd put something like 50% of the defense budge. I hear nobody complaining about this obvious rats nest waste, fraud, and abuse.

Well, for MMT, that's for yes, FED destruction. It's also to destroy the reserve currency status.  Reserve currency status is bad for exports outside of the needs for autarky.  The empire, I reckon will keep chugging cause it's too far gone for reform.

I mean, we're already Brazil with nukes, next stop in a stair step fashion over a period of 500 years.







As it was for our ancestors, so it will be again for our descendants.