We're WEIRD. Get over it.

[Eric the Green]

(10-06-2020, 01:13 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-05-2020, 11:38 AM)David Horn Wrote: No, I'm not in favor of rule by a small cluster of unelected jurists, but show me an alternative at this juncture.

Start with a set of reasonable compromises.  Assume the other guy takes his values as seriously as you take yours.  Give what the other guy really wants to have, stick to your basic position, and hope there is some intercept.

To start, assume an individual right to own and carry civilian weapons.  Define civilian weapons in terms of power, size of weapon and one shot per trigger pull.  If you feel it necessary, include the felon and insane exceptions.

But above all quit the idea that you are above the law, that your own values trump everybody else's.

That approach might work in the USA, which is a gun-obsessed society, generally-speaking, and not likely to go much further than this anytime soon. Laws to that effect might reduce gun violence and massacres to an extent.

But it shows that the constitution needs to be consulted, but not held as a literal absolute; that adjustments and definitions of terms need to be connected to the society of the time. 

In the future, I hope the justices interpret the 2nd once again as applying to members of a militia rather than an individual right. The Court has now shifted so far to the right that this is also unlikely within a decade or two at least. Many scholars agree with me (and not with Bob) on this interpretation, and I would go even further myself, but my opinions on guns are not those of the USA's majority at present, and probably not those of the USA's founders, as Bob points out. But of course, aristocracy, slavery and other evils were also upheld by those esteemed folks.

Who's values "trump" others on this issue and others in federal courts depends now on the electoral college and the fortunes of life, death and retirement. Reforms to all of this are needed sometime in the future. If anything is to be accomplished in the next decade or two, the Court's membership will likely need to be expanded, and this is perfectly justified considering the extreme values and ideologies and the ruthless governance of today's right wing, which I assume to be a temporary anomaly that has to be brought to heel, and this also includes reducing or eliminating the senate filibuster for a while. This minority is truly heedless of values other than it's own narrow dogmas, which cause the leader's desk to function as a stone wall. The USA will continue to decline if it does not have a working government capable of making decisions on policies, which has not happened for 40 years. Such stalemate and regression is extremely unhealthy for our society.

[Bob Butler 54]

(10-06-2020, 07:05 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: That approach might work in the USA, which is a gun-obsessed society, generally-speaking, and not likely to go much further than this anytime soon. Laws to that effect might reduce gun violence and massacres to an extent.

But it shows that the constitution needs to be consulted, but not held as a literal absolute; that adjustments and definitions of terms need to be connected to the society of the time. 

That shows you still hold your values above other values. The best solution in a dense environment may not be the best solution everywhere. We formed a social contract between the roundheads and cavaliers, and the written result was the Constitution. That social contract should not be torn asunder by arrogance. As recent events have illustrated, we occasionally need it.

(10-06-2020, 07:05 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: In the future, I hope the justices interpret the 2nd once again as applying to members of a militia rather than an individual right. The Court has now shifted so far to the right that this is also unlikely within a decade or two at least. Many scholars agree with me (and not with Bob) on this interpretation, and I would go even further myself, but my opinions on guns are not those of the USA's majority at present, and probably not those of the USA's founders, as Bob points out. But of course, aristocracy, slavery and other evils were also upheld by those esteemed folks.

Who's values "trump" others on this issue and others in federal courts depends now on the electoral college and the fortunes of life, death and retirement. Reforms to all of this are needed sometime in the future. If anything is to be accomplished in the next decade or two, the Court's membership will likely need to be expanded, and this is perfectly justified considering the extreme values and ideologies and the ruthless governance of today's right wing, which I assume to be a temporary anomaly that has to be brought to heel, and this also includes reducing or eliminating the senate filibuster for a while. This minority is truly heedless of values other than it's own narrow dogmas, which cause the leader's desk to function as a stone wall. The USA will continue to decline if it does not have a working government capable of making decisions on policies, which has not happened for 40 years. Such stalemate and regression is extremely unhealthy for our society.

After the reconstruction, there was a presidential election that was about as messy as the one we are heading into now. Ballot box stuffing. Voter suppression. Intimidation. Two sets of electors showed up for several of the states. They worked out a compromise. The Republicans would get the presidency. The Democrats, at the time the rural, racist southern faction, would get the south back. A law was passed that the federal military could not enforce the law, therefore they left the door open for the states and Jim Crow to run rampant. The Supreme Court passed cases that nullified the entire Bill of Rights.

In the mid 20th Century, Thurgood Marshall and the NAACP attacked each of the Jim Crow decisions one at a time…. except the Second. The militia interpretation was a relic invented by the Jim Crow court for purely racist reasons. But Marshall didn’t consider it as his axe to grind, and let that interpretation stand. It took a while before the law schools and NRA finished the job.

For over a hundred years the law schools taught the Jim Crow interpretation. Some liberal justices hostile to the intent of the founding fathers found reason to read the law sideways and stick with the racist creed. However, there is no doubt as to what the founders intended to say.

[David Horn]

(10-06-2020, 01:13 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-05-2020, 11:38 AM)David Horn Wrote: No, I'm not in favor of rule by a small cluster of unelected jurists, but show me an alternative at this juncture.

Start with a set of reasonable compromises.  Assume the other guy takes his values as seriously as you take yours.  Give what the other guy really wants to have, stick to your basic position, and hope there is some intercept.

That may have worked in the dim past, but not now. What you're expecting is comity, and that went out the window with the Reagan Presidency.

Bob Wrote:To start, assume an individual right to own and carry civilian weapons.  Define civilian weapons in terms of power, size of weapon and one shot per trigger pull.  If you feel it necessary, include the felon and insane exceptions.

I'm not going to assume something I firmly disagree with. Carrying weapons should be a privilege, not a right. If some of the big square states with no people in them decide that, on the state level, this is suitable for them, then they should make it a state right ... and keep it there. Chicago is a perfect example of an adjacent state polluting the city with weapons on demand. OK, maybe that works for Indiana. It doesn't work for Illinois -- especially Chicago.

Bob Wrote:But above all quit the idea that you are above the law, that your own values trump everybody else's.

"Gun rights" are only defined as they are because a conservative court decided they should be. Even there, the right was limited to home defense. I could live with that, if it stayed there. It doesn't.

[Classic-Xer]

(10-05-2020, 11:22 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(10-04-2020, 11:12 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-03-2020, 04:52 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-03-2020, 02:26 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-03-2020, 12:14 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Constitutional restraints are often all that keeps the majority from dispossessing, enslaving, and murdering the minority. I think of what has happened in other countries... like the Nuremberg Laws that made pariahs out of you-know-who.  

Are you in favor or opposed to the Democratic Party significantly altering and packing the supreme court, eliminating the filibuster and the electoral college? Also, are you willing to accept the consequences of them doing so and whatever additional burdens may be inflicted/imposed on you personally as a result of giving them the right to do so these days?

If President Trump pushes a grossly-incompetent, corrupt, or extremist Justice upon us because he can , then packing the Supreme Court may be a necessity. Eleven justices would still give the GOP a 6-5 edge.

So, what's going to happen to you when the Democrats try to push their agenda down our throats? Are you going to be able to afford a loaf of bread? Are you going to be able to voice your opinion without fear of being persecuted or killed? Like I said, we are still being relatively nice and still content with leaving nature to determine the coarse. You don't seem to realize that you have chosen to be on the wrong side of history which is fine with me. Your senators are supposed to be wiser than they seem these days.

Did you look in the mirror when writing these words? Believers and synchophants are blind to the emperor having no clothes. Some people love a dictator and cannot see him for what he is. Such is the case with you and all other Trump followers, as The Donald carries out his plan to "get rid of the ballots," shut down debates, stuff our Courts with justices that deny our rights, shove aside the press as the enemy of the people, refuse to follow the law if it doesn't suit him, threaten to use violence and send goons to arrest and gas peaceful protesters, use government for his own private enrichment, and other projects worthy only of tyrants and their deceived, sheepish believers.

What rights of yours are being denied? You're free to speak, free to vote, free to make a living, free to defend yourself and free to own a firearm too. The only dictators that I see are on the Democratic side these days. You better start learning to play by the rules and you better start placing a higher value on the rule of law as well. You see, if we end up at war with each other, there will be no protections for you or any of your politicians and we will be free to directly engage and eliminate all of you. Dude, the only world you know is the world that we represent today. You don't know anything about living in a world like Somalia or war torn Spain or the old Soviet Union or Nazi Germany or old Russia but you're going to find out soon enough if you so choose and opt to continue on the same destructive path that you're on right now.

[Bob Butler 54]

(10-06-2020, 12:43 PM)David Horn Wrote: "Gun rights" are only defined as they are because a conservative court decided they should be.  Even there, the right was limited to home defense. I could live with that, if it stayed there.  It doesn't.

Wrong. You should familiarize yourself with history.

[Bob Butler 54]

(10-06-2020, 12:55 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: What rights of yours are being denied? You're free to speak, free to vote, free to make a living, free to defend yourself and free to own a firearm too. The only dictators that I see are on the Democratic side these days. You better start learning to play by the rules and you better start placing a higher value on the rule of law as well. You see, if we end up at war with each other, there will be no protections for you or any of your politicians and we will be free to directly engage and eliminate all of you. Dude, the only world you know is the world that we represent today. You don't know anything about living in a world like Somalia or war torn Spain or the old Soviet Union or Nazi Germany or old Russia but you're going to find out soon enough if you so choose and opt to continue on the same destructive path that you're on right now.

Come the crisis, the progressives want to solve the most pressing problems facing the culture, but the conservatives think to leave the problems be.  History suggests the problems get solved.  That is how America progresses.  Today, the two problems bubbling to the top are COVID and racial violent policing.  Global Warming made the Democratic platform, but we'll see how much effort is truly applied.  As usual, the conservative faction is dragging their feet.  It will be real easy to make them look bad when the history books are written.

I am really curious as to what will happen with the Trump loyalists, the elite servitors and the true conservatives fight over the remnants of the Republican Party.

[Classic-Xer]

(10-06-2020, 01:16 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-06-2020, 12:55 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: What rights of yours are being denied? You're free to speak, free to vote, free to make a living, free to defend yourself and free to own a firearm too. The only dictators that I see are on the Democratic side these days. You better start learning to play by the rules and you better start placing a higher value on the rule of law as well. You see, if we end up at war with each other, there will be no protections for you or any of your politicians and we will be free to directly engage and eliminate all of you. Dude, the only world you know is the world that we represent today. You don't know anything about living in a world like Somalia or war torn Spain or the old Soviet Union or Nazi Germany or old Russia but you're going to find out soon enough if you so choose and opt to continue on the same destructive path that you're on right now.

Come the crisis, the progressives want to solve the most pressing problems facing the culture, but the conservatives think to leave the problems be.  History suggests the problems get solved.  That is how America progresses.  Today, the two problems bubbling to the top are COVID and racial violent policing.  Global Warming made the Democratic platform, but we'll see how much effort is truly applied.  As usual, the conservative faction is dragging their feet.  It will be real easy to make them look bad when the history books are written.

I am really curious as to what will happen with the Trump loyalists, the elite servitors and the true conservatives fight over the remnants of the Republican Party.

In a way, I hope the Democrats win in November because that would mark the end of the Democratic party vs prolonging it's inevitable demise. Yep, the conservative factions are dragging their feet with COVID19 and refusing to open up economies and government related institutions and so forth. BTW, Global Warming has never been viewed by most as a pressing issue. The Progressives are actually the ones who are in all out preservation mode right now. I'm curious to see how it plays out for the Democrats as well. I mean, the Democratic population is at much greater risk than the Republican population at this point.

[Bob Butler 54]

(10-06-2020, 04:48 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-06-2020, 01:16 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-06-2020, 12:55 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: What rights of yours are being denied? You're free to speak, free to vote, free to make a living, free to defend yourself and free to own a firearm too. The only dictators that I see are on the Democratic side these days. You better start learning to play by the rules and you better start placing a higher value on the rule of law as well. You see, if we end up at war with each other, there will be no protections for you or any of your politicians and we will be free to directly engage and eliminate all of you. Dude, the only world you know is the world that we represent today. You don't know anything about living in a world like Somalia or war torn Spain or the old Soviet Union or Nazi Germany or old Russia but you're going to find out soon enough if you so choose and opt to continue on the same destructive path that you're on right now.

Come the crisis, the progressives want to solve the most pressing problems facing the culture, but the conservatives think to leave the problems be.  History suggests the problems get solved.  That is how America progresses.  Today, the two problems bubbling to the top are COVID and racial violent policing.  Global Warming made the Democratic platform, but we'll see how much effort is truly applied.  As usual, the conservative faction is dragging their feet.  It will be real easy to make them look bad when the history books are written.

I am really curious as to what will happen with the Trump loyalists, the elite servitors and the true conservatives fight over the remnants of the Republican Party.

In a way, I hope the Democrats win in November because that would mark the end of the Democratic party vs prolonging it's inevitable demise. Yep, the conservative factions are dragging their feet with COVID19 and refusing to  open up economies and government related institutions and so forth. BTW, Global Warming has never been viewed by most as  a pressing issue. The Progressives are actually the ones who are in all out preservation mode right now. I'm curious to see how it plays out for the Democrats as well. I mean, the Democratic population is at much greater risk than the Republican population at this point.

I suppose death by environmental collapse is slower than death by an inept effort by the government to reduce COVID or a death at the hands of racial violent police.  Can you anticipate your place in the history books yet?

[Classic-Xer]

(10-06-2020, 05:06 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-06-2020, 04:48 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-06-2020, 01:16 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-06-2020, 12:55 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: What rights of yours are being denied? You're free to speak, free to vote, free to make a living, free to defend yourself and free to own a firearm too. The only dictators that I see are on the Democratic side these days. You better start learning to play by the rules and you better start placing a higher value on the rule of law as well. You see, if we end up at war with each other, there will be no protections for you or any of your politicians and we will be free to directly engage and eliminate all of you. Dude, the only world you know is the world that we represent today. You don't know anything about living in a world like Somalia or war torn Spain or the old Soviet Union or Nazi Germany or old Russia but you're going to find out soon enough if you so choose and opt to continue on the same destructive path that you're on right now.

Come the crisis, the progressives want to solve the most pressing problems facing the culture, but the conservatives think to leave the problems be.  History suggests the problems get solved.  That is how America progresses.  Today, the two problems bubbling to the top are COVID and racial violent policing.  Global Warming made the Democratic platform, but we'll see how much effort is truly applied.  As usual, the conservative faction is dragging their feet.  It will be real easy to make them look bad when the history books are written.

I am really curious as to what will happen with the Trump loyalists, the elite servitors and the true conservatives fight over the remnants of the Republican Party.

In a way, I hope the Democrats win in November because that would mark the end of the Democratic party vs prolonging it's inevitable demise. Yep, the conservative factions are dragging their feet with COVID19 and refusing to  open up economies and government related institutions and so forth. BTW, Global Warming has never been viewed by most as  a pressing issue. The Progressives are actually the ones who are in all out preservation mode right now. I'm curious to see how it plays out for the Democrats as well. I mean, the Democratic population is at much greater risk than the Republican population at this point.

I suppose death by environmental collapse is slower than death by an inept effort by the government to reduce COVID or a death at the hands of racial violent police.  Can you anticipate your place in the history books yet?

It's to bad we can't just snap our fingers and make COVID go away. I don't see myself as having a place in the history books. The unsung heroes are the ones who do their jobs and prefer to remain anonymous.

[pbrower2a]

(10-06-2020, 04:48 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-06-2020, 01:16 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-06-2020, 12:55 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: What rights of yours are being denied? You're free to speak, free to vote, free to make a living, free to defend yourself and free to own a firearm too. The only dictators that I see are on the Democratic side these days. You better start learning to play by the rules and you better start placing a higher value on the rule of law as well. You see, if we end up at war with each other, there will be no protections for you or any of your politicians and we will be free to directly engage and eliminate all of you. Dude, the only world you know is the world that we represent today. You don't know anything about living in a world like Somalia or war torn Spain or the old Soviet Union or Nazi Germany or old Russia but you're going to find out soon enough if you so choose and opt to continue on the same destructive path that you're on right now.

Come the crisis, the progressives want to solve the most pressing problems facing the culture, but the conservatives think to leave the problems be.  History suggests the problems get solved.  That is how America progresses.  Today, the two problems bubbling to the top are COVID and racial violent policing.  Global Warming made the Democratic platform, but we'll see how much effort is truly applied.  As usual, the conservative faction is dragging their feet.  It will be real easy to make them look bad when the history books are written.

I am really curious as to what will happen with the Trump loyalists, the elite servitors and the true conservatives fight over the remnants of the Republican Party.

In a way, I hope the Democrats win in November because that would mark the end of the Democratic party vs prolonging it's inevitable demise.

Kübler-Ross originally developed stages to describe the process patients with terminal illness go through as they come to terms with their own deaths; it was later applied to grieving friends and family as well, who seemed to undergo a similar process.[8] The stages, popularly known by the acronym DABDA, include:[9]

1. Denial – The first reaction is denial. In this stage, individuals believe the diagnosis is somehow mistaken, and cling to a false, preferable reality.
   
   
2. Anger – When the individual recognizes that denial cannot continue, they become frustrated, especially at proximate individuals. Certain psychological responses of a person undergoing this phase would be: "Why me? It's not fair!"; "How can this happen to me?"; "Who is to blame?"; "Why would this happen?".
   
   
3. Bargaining – The third stage involves the hope that the individual can avoid a cause of grief. Usually, the negotiation for an extended life is made in exchange for a reformed lifestyle. People facing less serious trauma can bargain or seek compromise. Examples include the terminally ill person who "negotiates with God" to attend a daughter's wedding, an attempt to bargain for more time to live in exchange for a reformed lifestyle or a phrase such as "If I could trade their life for mine".
   
   
4. Depression – "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"; "I'm going to die soon, so what's the point?"; "I miss my loved one; why go on?"
   During the fourth stage, the individual despairs at the recognition of their mortality. In this state, the individual may become silent, refuse visitors and spend much of the time mournful and sullen.
   
   
5. Acceptance – "It's going to be okay."; "I can't fight it; I may as well prepare for it."
   In this last stage, individuals embrace mortality or inevitable future, or that of a loved one, or other tragic event. People dying may precede the survivors in this state, which typically comes with a calm, retrospective view for the individual, and a stable condition of emotions.
   

Which stage of grief are you now in?

1. Denial: Classic X'er's reactionary view of the world will prevail as people come to their senses. 

2. Anger: How can so many people be so blind about what liberals are doing to America as Classic X'er defines it?

3. Bargaining: Classic X'er's  "real Americans" just need to re-elect Donald Trump, win back the House, and hold onto the House just one more time to save it from a liberal-radical apocalypse. But maybe if those radicals win, "real Americans like he will be resilient enough to pick up the pieces when Democrats, Black Lives Matters, and Antifa bring about social disorder and an economic collapse. People will be begging for having cops authorized to beat confessions out of people who are soon broken on the wheel... or whatever. Minorities will know "their places" again if they don't or can't wisely return to where they came from.

4. Depression: Classic X'er  will experience as one after another State decides that  Donald Trump or Mike Pence is a non-solution on the evening of November 3, 2020. Democrats like me get the realization as we celebrate the end of an error, we get the sobering reality that we have our work cut out for us. Campaigning is far easier against a brittle target than is governing.

5. Acceptance: when more people get paid well for doing genuine work, then economic activity will make it easier for Classic X'er to sell, install, and service air conditioners. He will not like the taxes, but the added business will more than compensate. 

Quote:Yep, the conservative factions are dragging their feet with COVID19 and refusing to  open up economies and government related institutions and so forth.

I have one idea of a very effective way of spreading COVID-19: kissing, which can introduce a clean mouth to an infected mouth. It was the other part of the amorous equipment, you know, just below the place of a belt buckle, where HIV was spread from one person to another. It is not my desire to get unduly explicit, but I can even imagine COVID-19 becoming potentially another STD.

COVID-19 has killed a number of people about as large as Des Moines, Iowa in the United States. If those were war losses  and the costly stalemate were over some ill-defined national purpose, we would have protests against the political leadership. Next cities that people might know about on the grim list include Modesto (where American Graffiti unfolds) and San Bernardino in California. Both are dumps.  We are about 6000 deaths away from  the 100th-largest city in the US, Baton Rouge, also a dump and well-known as the capitol of the not-so-great state of Louisiana and the Jimmy Swaggart ministry. 

Quote:BTW, Global Warming has never been viewed by most as  a pressing issue.

The worst effects of global warming will be upon us in time for the Crisis of 2100 when hundreds of millions of peasant farmers find King Neptune confiscating their lands and livelihoods. That could be a Crisis more severe than the Crisis of 1940... the one that featured the Holocaust. I can imagine the level of mass death approaching those of either the volcanic calamity of AD 537 which destroyed what was left of classical civilization in western Europe and played havoc elsewhere worldwide -- or the mass death from Korea to Silesia and Siberia to India resulting from the Mongol conquests. 55 million deaths resulting from WWII will seem a pittance in the Crisis of 2100 if Humanity does not stop global warming.   

Quote:The Progressives are actually the ones who are in all out preservation mode right now.

No, we Progressives are the ones about to get the huge responsibilities that the greedy bastards have endowed us. 

Quote:I'm curious to see how it plays out for the Democrats as well. I mean, the Democratic population is at much greater risk than the Republican population at this point.

We are all in this mess together.

[Classic-Xer]

(10-06-2020, 07:22 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Which stage of grief are you now in?

I'm not the one who is reliant upon a political system that's unsustainable. I already accepted the inevitable and the death of America as we still know it today a long time ago. You know what you are to me, you're the absent minded Democrat who finds himself stuck in the middle of a war between the American Right and the Left.

[Bob Butler 54]

(10-06-2020, 06:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-06-2020, 05:06 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I suppose death by environmental collapse is slower than death by an inept effort by the government to reduce COVID or a death at the hands of racial violent police.  Can you anticipate your place in the history books yet?

It's to bad we can't just snap our fingers and make COVID go away. I don't see myself as having a place in the history books. The unsung heroes are the ones who do their jobs and prefer to remain anonymous.

The people who sit and do nothing while there are dire problems to be solved are not remembered as heroes. The conservatives are those who find an excuse to do nothing when there is much to be done.

[Classic-Xer]

(10-06-2020, 10:08 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-06-2020, 06:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-06-2020, 05:06 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I suppose death by environmental collapse is slower than death by an inept effort by the government to reduce COVID or a death at the hands of racial violent police.  Can you anticipate your place in the history books yet?

It's to bad we can't just snap our fingers and make COVID go away. I don't see myself as having a place in the history books. The unsung heroes are the ones who do their jobs and prefer to remain anonymous.

The people who sit and do nothing while there are dire problems to be solved are not remembered as heroes.  The conservatives are those who find an excuse to do nothing when there is much to be done.

Dude, the Democrats always have an excuse for not doing their jobs or addressing dire problems.

[Eric the Green]

(10-06-2020, 11:07 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-06-2020, 10:08 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-06-2020, 06:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-06-2020, 05:06 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I suppose death by environmental collapse is slower than death by an inept effort by the government to reduce COVID or a death at the hands of racial violent police.  Can you anticipate your place in the history books yet?

It's to bad we can't just snap our fingers and make COVID go away. I don't see myself as having a place in the history books. The unsung heroes are the ones who do their jobs and prefer to remain anonymous.

The people who sit and do nothing while there are dire problems to be solved are not remembered as heroes.  The conservatives are those who find an excuse to do nothing when there is much to be done.

Dude, the Democrats always have an excuse for not doing their jobs or addressing dire problems.

They have a valid explanation: blocked by Republicans for over 40 years now.

[Eric the Green]

(10-06-2020, 12:55 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-05-2020, 11:22 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(10-04-2020, 11:12 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-03-2020, 04:52 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-03-2020, 02:26 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Are you in favor or opposed to the Democratic Party significantly altering and packing the supreme court, eliminating the filibuster and the electoral college? Also, are you willing to accept the consequences of them doing so and whatever additional burdens may be inflicted/imposed on you personally as a result of giving them the right to do so these days?

If President Trump pushes a grossly-incompetent, corrupt, or extremist Justice upon us because he can , then packing the Supreme Court may be a necessity. Eleven justices would still give the GOP a 6-5 edge.

So, what's going to happen to you when the Democrats try to push their agenda down our throats? Are you going to be able to afford a loaf of bread? Are you going to be able to voice your opinion without fear of being persecuted or killed? Like I said, we are still being relatively nice and still content with leaving nature to determine the coarse. You don't seem to realize that you have chosen to be on the wrong side of history which is fine with me. Your senators are supposed to be wiser than they seem these days.

Did you look in the mirror when writing these words? Believers and synchophants are blind to the emperor having no clothes. Some people love a dictator and cannot see him for what he is. Such is the case with you and all other Trump followers, as The Donald carries out his plan to "get rid of the ballots," shut down debates, stuff our Courts with justices that deny our rights, shove aside the press as the enemy of the people, refuse to follow the law if it doesn't suit him, threaten to use violence and send goons to arrest and gas peaceful protesters, use government for his own private enrichment, and other projects worthy only of tyrants and their deceived, sheepish believers.

What rights of yours are being denied? You're free to speak, free to vote, free to make a living, free to defend yourself and free to own a firearm too. The only dictators that I see are on the Democratic side these days. You better start learning to play by the rules and you better start placing a higher value on the rule of law as well. You see, if we end up at war with each other, there will be no protections for you or any of your politicians and we will be free to directly engage and eliminate all of you. Dude, the only world you know is the world that we represent today. You don't know anything about living in a world like Somalia or war torn Spain or the old Soviet Union or Nazi Germany or old Russia but you're going to find out soon enough if you so choose and opt to continue on the same destructive path that you're on right now.

We have a right to a clean and healthy environment. Trump and his followers want to destroy it and all life. We have a right to health care; Trump and Co. want to take it away. We have a right to speak, but many legislators in red and purple states have tried to restrict protests, and Bush removed our right to say dirty words on broadcast TV and ruined careers. We are free to make a living, as long as your job is not replaced by a computer, shipped overseas, swallowed up by corporate takeovers, fired for no reason (which Trump made into a TV show), or work in dangerous conditions. And having a firearm is no right that I need or want.

You'd better go back to school and learn what democracy is, Classic Xer. It is not getting "rid of ballots." It is not lying so much that even corporate media labels the lies for what they are. It is not replacing votes with electors chosen by state legislatures to vote for Drumpshitheadface. It is not requiring qualified voters to pay to vote, and making voting so restrictive, dangerous and intimidating than many can't vote. It is not proclaiming that you won't leave office if you lose, and calling on stupid militias to defend yourself there. It is not arresting innocent people on the street and gassing them for a photo op. It is not cops who kill innocent people just because they are black, and usually getting away with it. It is not proclaiming that you are for the rule of law, and then supporting vigilantes, threatening violence and voting for a so-called president who proclaims he is above the law. It is not calling for a war in which the goal is to eliminate half the population of the country.

Again, look in the mirror and see that it is you and your side that will end up in a fascist state if you "opt to continue on the same destructive path that you're on right now."

[pbrower2a]

(10-06-2020, 10:03 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-06-2020, 07:22 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Which stage of grief are you now in?

I'm not the one who is reliant upon a political system that's unsustainable. I already accepted the inevitable and the death of America as we still know it today a long time ago. You know what you are to me, you're the absent minded Democrat who finds himself stuck in the middle of a war between the American Right and the Left.

Your language is little different from that of segregationists scared that their assumption of whites getting all the breaks and blacks having to defer on all public matters was the foundation of the life that they know. Such was the same in Kukluxistan or South Apartheid. 

The question is now whether the neoliberal idea that nothing matters except the enrichment of economic elites is the sole purpose of any American life, and that the poor somehow can expect improved lives by being squeezed more and more. Neoliberalism has wrecked much of America. It's only a matter of time under neoliberal economics and politics before your Twin Cities become another Detroit, Cleveland, or St. Louis 

Maximization of inequality leads to proletarian revolutions. When such happens, your survival could depend upon being a real-life Victor Komarovsky, a character from Doctor Zhivago  who, lacking any moral compass but knowing that power is everything and that power depends upon using one's competence to serve the brutal needs of whoever is in charge is essential for surviving and thriving no matter who is in charge. Victor Komarovsky was as ready to serve the Whites as the Reds.

I have never been to the Twin Cities... but I know a little about it. The climatic classification is borderline between Dfb (warm but not hot and rainy summers, but snowy winters, something like Green Bay) and Dfa (fire and ice climate with no real dry season). That is roughly the border for summers in which, as in Kalamazoo or Detroit, an air conditioner can make life much more pleasant. Air conditioners are a luxury in the Twin Cities, Kalamazoo, or Detroit. They are necessities in Kansas City, St. Louis, or Indianapolis. 

I know what your business is. You would fare far better if more people could afford air conditioners.

[Bob Butler 54]

(10-06-2020, 10:03 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-06-2020, 07:22 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Which stage of grief are you now in?

I'm not the one who is reliant upon a political system that's unsustainable. I already accepted the inevitable and the death of America as we still know it today a long time ago. You know what you are to me, you're the absent minded Democrat who finds himself stuck in the middle of a war between the American Right and the Left.

What war? The military just said no. Their job is not to fight the American people. Gone. The federal secret police retreated. The federal government has no police powers and the governors chase them off. They are a no show now. The racist violent cops still surface every month or so, but soon get fired and/or arrested. When the Democrats come into power they should expect to be held accountable for their actions. Even the Proud Boys lost somebody, and are not going into protests instigating anymore. Some noise is still being made by those determined for prejudice and violence, but they have mostly been driven back.

Here in blue America where the drive to hate is much weaker, no such war is apparent.

[pbrower2a]

America is at war, and it is losing the war with the SARS-2 virus that causes COVID-19.

[Bob Butler 54]

(10-07-2020, 10:59 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: America is at war, and it is losing the war with the SARS-2 virus that causes COVID-19.

Not a war. A pandemic. There is a difference, not that the effort shouldn't be nigh on equal.

[Classic-Xer]

(10-07-2020, 09:54 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-06-2020, 10:03 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-06-2020, 07:22 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Which stage of grief are you now in?

I'm not the one who is reliant upon a political system that's unsustainable. I already accepted the inevitable and the death of America as we still know it today a long time ago. You know what you are to me, you're the absent minded Democrat who finds himself stuck in the middle of a war between the American Right and the Left.

What war?  The military just said no.  Their job is not to fight the American people.  Gone.  The federal secret police retreated.  The federal government has no police powers and the governors chase them off.  They are a no show now.  The racist violent cops still surface every month or so, but soon get fired and/or arrested.  When the Democrats come into power they should expect to be held accountable for their actions.  Even the Proud Boys lost somebody, and are not going into protests instigating anymore.  Some noise is still being made by those determined for prejudice and violence, but they have mostly been driven back.

Here in blue America where the drive to hate is much weaker, no such war is apparent.

I'm sure the racist Democrats will hold the police accountable for any actions taken against people of their own race and I'm sure Antifa and Black Lives Matter will continue do what they're both known to do and I'm sure that you and most Democrats will view whatever they may or may not have done the same way as Black Lives Matter and Antifa as well. Oh, and sooner or later one of them is going to fuck up like fuck ups do at the wrong place at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong group of people and find themselves being mowed down by legal gun owners and once it starts its not going to stop until the Democratic party is destroyed. BTW, for someone whose drive for hate is supposedly, you have a funny way of showing it by the way you tend to use and spread it. I know you believe that you're an angel but that ain't true. It's funny how you and the blue media can accept a Proud Boy being killed for instigating as you say, but you can't accept instigators and criminals associated with the Democratic party being killed by armed citizens. I don't have a strong drive to hate all Democrats either but you're doing a good job building it up and you're doing a good job sorting out the good and the bad Democrats for us as well. I've been telling you for years that what we've been doing as a nation is a natural process. The Left is at war with nature and anyone familiar with nature understands that nature always wins.