I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT!

[Eric the Green]

(02-07-2017, 10:09 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(02-07-2017, 08:31 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: <snip>
Uh, no.  Canada is a sovereign nation, regardless of how lots of Americans think of it as the 51st state. The same goes for the several provinces as well. That means if pieces of the west coast states decide to join Canada, then it's only fair to extend the same privileges to Canada/its provinces.  I accept said sovereignty in my deal, which makes it much better for Canada. As for Oklahoma, California's exit opens up all sorts of money making possibilities that I'm OK with. I'm sure we can make money hand over fist by accepting nuclear waste, pyrolysis plants for toxic waste reformulation, etc. Desperate times call for desperate measures!

http://wastepyrolysisplant.net/  <-  huge new oil source
http://www.oecd-nea.org/trw/index.html  <-  source for expensive nuclides, like Tc99

Yes, it might be desparate. They may want to declare war on California to keep us in the union, or invade Canada and take Alberta. Who knows.

But if Okies got real concerned, perhaps they could if they chose wake up and go for alternative energy. Wind is a big resource there. Okies don't HAVE to remain in the dark ages. They are just choosing to right now. If we leave and red America is forced to live without as much money and live on its own corrupt and bankrupt values, then they can see for themselves that their trickle-down xenophobia doesn't work.

It would not be a good deal for them, for parts of Canada to go red and go back to the dark ages. Canadians even in Alberta will not like that. They probably like having health insurance, a modicum of gun control, education that is public and not religiously owned and operated, and not being part of a militarist country that likes wars of choice and votes for presidents that cater to Russia, a country that pollutes itself and denies climate change; etc.etc.; they might not like to join this wacked out red America.

And especially if the northeast decides to join the West and petition to join Canada too. Canada would be the powerhouse of North America; look at all the brilliant immigrants who come to Atlantis/Pacifica/Canada! They start 3 times more businesses than so-called natives already. And Atlantis/Pacifica/Canada will welcome these immigrants, while (T)Rump America builds walls to keep them all out. We will crush you economically, and you'll soon be crying for us to come home.

I'd say if America doesn't turn around big time and throw out these fascist wackos soon, the new colossus of the North will be a welcome sight to Canadians and coastal Americans alike! Trumpland is a pariah already; a disgraceful excuse for a non-entity. And day by day, so far, Calexit and Pacific/Atlantic Exit grows more and more attractive. I'd give it a few years for the USA to wake up and throw the bums out and go left. After that, if Trump/Ryan is the direction we're going even after 40 years of its failure, then there's no hope. We'll have to leave you guys to your own devices, and whether it's legal for us to go or not; won't matter. We'll just declare it so, and say bye bye. By executive orders!

1.  Lots of stuff written.... You taking something?

I guess I'm eating too much.

Quote:2. Welcome immigrants?  OK, So there's no limit? No borders?  That's a disaster in the making. Obviously, there are very real limits to the carrying capacity of any country. I will give you this though.  The raunchy religious idiot fundies we have possess hangups over birth control. So to keep away from population overshoot you have to control both.  I think the US has too many people already given the reality of global warming [yes, another hangup around here.]  Here's the problem, if we humans do not voluntarily control our numbers, mother nature will by the usual means [warfare,disease,famine].  So I choose the former since it's far less unpleasant. Likewise, multiculturalism is a mirage. Sorry, nations need a set of values and other commonalities to keep from flying apart in a fratricidal paroxysm. I refer you to the former Yugoslavia and Iraq as to how well multiculturalism works. I'll defer you to square the circle of "brilliant" immigrants. So on that, OK go for it. Let 'em all in and blow through your water and food.
After that, comes the deluge of fratricide.

I agree to an extent, but not entirely, with your long reply #2. Yes, we need borders. But the USA already controls its borders; if anything too much. But it arguably has to because of the terrorist threats today. Yes, we have too many people. But the USA has always been multicultural, and I don't worry too much about it. Yes, too much immigration too fast is hard to adjust to. But we already have controls. Immigrants seem to be a net plus for the economy, adding to commerce and innovation. Yugoslavia is an entirely different situation from the USA. I don't see any reason for their turmoil, except they lived too much in the dark ages and can't see past their religious differences; speaking of religious idiot hangups. So what if someone is a Catholic, Orthodox or Muslim? Yugoslavia was just too old fashioned for its own good. We in the USA need no such "commonalities." The higher value is tolerance and understanding. Red states don't get this; they are also too old fashioned for their own good. If they can't get over this, then the blue states might have to go their own way, over this and other issues. Or just be defeated politically some day and get used to it. I hope for the latter solution. Meanwhile, we need some border controls, yes. But we already have them. (Although arguably, not good enough trade tariffs.) So the issue is nothing but fear-pot stirring for votes.

Quote:3. Yes on public education as the default, and again not run by fundie freaks. Creationism is bogus. Enough said.
4. Wind power, sure, but the question of base load has to be taken into account. Renewables just aren't quit there yet. They may get that way with some sort of new battery or other storage, but we're not there yet.

It's on its way, but the point is we're moving there, so no US state needs to worry about losing oil. It's going away, probably already by the time any secession movement gets going in the 2020s.

Quote:5. pyrolysis plants: You might think they're yucky , but they're not really. They make a fantastic way to suck a lot of endocrine disrupter laden plastic and convert that stuff back into oil. The same goes for old tires.
6. Tc-99 is running in short supply. Get it from atomic waste or new nuclear plants?

I don't know what that has to do with Calexit, and I don't even know what you're referring to (pyrolysis, Tc-99; whut?), but yes there are reports that nuclear waste can be reused for nuclear fuel.

Quote:7. The "trickle down stuff" is actually a mix of neoliberalism/crony capitalism by another name. Well if the split up happens, the military protection of the trading routes just goes poof. So yeah, you lucky guy, you unearthed another mechanism for the neoliberal order to collapse. In reality, neoliberalism sows the seeds of its own destruction. Death by demand gaps or military collapse ala Soviet style.  Either way is just awesome man.   After all, Trump's a symptom of neoliberal economics going off the rails?  Thought about that one , Eric?

Indeed, it might go off the rails. Trump is not a skilled engineer. But we'll see.

Quote:8. That leads to external economics.  I think the neoliberal system's collapse would take the dollar with it. It's gonna happen anyway, so whatever.
9. Dark ages:  May be on the way anyhow.  The way we humans waste antibiotics and the other stuff could make it so. There's always a dark age sometime in the future. That even goes for Canada or whatever you call the new thingie.

I hadn't thought we were going there for a long time yet, according to my reading of historical cycles. All of that stuff in my book, ya know:

http://philosopherswheel.com/fortunes.htm

But, hey, I'm NOT saying "I'm right!" We'll see if my prediction holds up or not. It's not looking good right now, in fact. No new age or renaissance can happen under Trump. Only if he provokes an Awakening that reverses today's trends soon.