Big Lies

[Classic-Xer]

(02-10-2017, 02:51 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-10-2017, 02:06 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(02-10-2017, 05:31 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The Ninth Circuit recently agreed that Trump's executive order to stop certain aliens from entering the US should not be enforced.  Trump responded by calling this a political decision, and announced that he would win easily on appeal.  This makes me wonder if Trump is dealing with a well thought out legal position, or if he is shooting from the hip instinctively.  To often, when confronted with any sort of opposition, his tendency is to insult and confront with little concern for maintaining contact with reality.

Wondering, I actually slogged through the Ninth Circuit's opinion.  I'm not professional legal type, but it felt solid.  If there is politics involved, and I suspect there is, it has been camouflaged well behind a wall of precedent.  The Ninth walked through Trump's lawyer's claims point by point, and rebutted each point.

On the judicial side of things, conservative judges tend to strictly honor the intent of the authors of the law, while progressive judges might be concerned with the rights of the people.  I'm thinking that at least in this case, Trump is over stretching his power while disregarding rights and due process.  He's stepping on the toes of both sorts of judges.  The unanimous decision by a panel appointed by presidents of both parties might suggest Trump will have a problem moving on.

This reflects an ongoing question on my part.  Is Trump lying, or is he living in an alternate reality where he is right?  Does he really believe he has some sort of reasonable legal argument?

Who elected the Ninth Circuit Court to be the president of the United States? Who elected them to be the law makers (legislative branch) of the United States? Whose rights are actually being disregarded? Do you like America? Do you like living in America? If our rights can be disregarded what makes you think that your rights can't be disregarded? I told you that you'd be wise to begin viewing issues from a blues perspective to viewing issues from more of an American's perspective? If you are incapable of doing so, the extreme partisan can be accurately applied to you by me. You keep falling back/slipping back to a blues perspective? Here we are as a nation, trying to get certain things in place national security wise before we (America) begin leading a war against ISIS (a result of a major blue blunder). Where do you think America is at with ISIS? Love's/respects/values them enough to keep them around or want's them all dead one way or another?  Ask yourself this, how did America vote? Did bringing up Muslim concerns, young Muslim sob stories and using a Muslim who was still suffering from the emotional loss of  a son as political pawn against Trump change the way America voted?

The point has been well made, that if Trump and his supporters can render the judiciary impotent, then that also renders the legislature/congress impotent, because it can pass laws and the president can simply not enforce them. The constitution contains checks and balances, including Courts who can rule on the laws.

I wonder again what is your concern, Classic Xer? There is no threat from any of the people that Trump has banned. Refugees are all thoroughly vetted already. The 7 countries on his list have not been the source of any deaths and even very few incidents of terrorist threats. There was no need to stop travel "until we can tell what's going on." There's nothing going on. Illegal immigration from Mexico is down, and the border is enforced. This is simply stoking prejudice and fear to get support from his base of voters, which includes yourself.

And Drump disrespects the CIA, which are the folks who have stopped terrorist threats through good intelligence.

And you keep conflating your red perspective with an "American" perspective. But the blue side is correct about what American values are, and not your side. They are not xenophobia; they are welcoming to refugees from oppression and poverty. So, you think Emma Lazarus and the Statue of Liberty are un-American? You think the Constitution is un-American? And America did not vote for this. Only the 18th century slaveholders created this Trump situation.

And the war against the IS is solely due to the blunder of your side in invading Iraq when it posed no threat and had not attacked us. That created the IS. Obama pulling troops out in 2011 in accord with an agreement of the Iraqi government with President Bush was not a blunder, and did not create the IS. Al Qaeda in Iraq aka the IS was already there; the Maliki government gave it new life.

And now Trump is in charge of Obama's campaign to help the Iraqis get rid of the IS. I am concerned that this is being endangered by his Muslim ban against travel from Iraq. If the alliance between the new Iraqi government and the USA is broken because of Trump's behavior, then the only way the USA can fight the IS is to invade Iraq again with ground troops, seize the oil fields as he wants, and start another war with Iraq and thereby revive the IS. But, that's what you voted for, so I hope you like it.

Unfortunately, you can't blame Bush for Obama's mistakes with me. Honestly, I didn't believe that Obama would foolish enough to actually pull our troops out of Iraq. I screwed up and over estimated his level of intelligence. Do I need to remind you that half of your side was directly involved with Bush's blunder? As I recall, the great John Kerry voted in favor of the war before he voted against it. BTW, my position on the war at the time was similar to Trump's. However, my position during the war was always in favor of America winning the war because the outcome mattered to me as an American. BTW, I've always viewed the blues as the primary reason we lost. Lesson learned, blues aren't worth sacrificing for as far as people are concerned. I'm usually ahead of the curve so you want to think about dying soon because blues are going to have a hard time convincing American born Gen Xrs to do much of anything for the blues other than sink the final nail in their political coffin.