Big Lies

[Eric the Green]

(02-27-2017, 07:35 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(02-26-2017, 07:55 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-25-2017, 11:29 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(02-25-2017, 03:09 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: As Bush stated before the US invasion, he favored regime change in Iraq. The better way to go was not to violate international law and attack a sovereign state without reason. The Arab Spring would have happened 8 years later anyway. The people of Iraq would have risen up then and asked for our support. If the USA favored regime change in Iraq, that was the time-- not to invade, but to support the rebels as we did in Libya (without adequate follow-through), and like we should have done more about in Syria (whose people asked for our support) than we did. Without the prior Iraq invasion and its results, Americans might have been more willing to support the Arab Spring Revolution when it came.

As much as I liked the thought of the Arab Spring, and wish it could have taken hold, nonviolence isn't a good tool when the establishment doesn't respect human rights or human lives.  Alas, autocratic tyrannies seem to require violence.

So it seems, to a great extent. So these Arab Spring movements became. My point, is that if we were to "support regime change," the time to do it was when we could support an indigenous movement by the people, not impose one upon them by an unnecessary and illegal invasion. One would have happened in Iraq too in 2011.

I'm dubious about any indigenous movement developing while Saddam was in charge.  He was very good at keeping the indigenous in their place.

It was dubious; just as Syrians revolting against Assad was dubious. But at least if we had supported such movements, we would not be invading countries that posed no threat to us instead of what we did.

Quote:I am also dubious about the US jumping into indigenous rebellions in general, at least not without taking a very hard long objective look at Powell's Doctrine.  A lot of folks don't like the US.  If we go in, someone else might be tempted to go in as well.  It is the nature of insurgent conflict that it is easier to keep the unrest going than to achieve a victory that leads to peace and stability.  Sending in soldiers and explosives is not the kindest give one can give to the indigenous.  See Syria as an example of the mess that can result when foreign powers take an interest in an internal conflict.

See Syria as an example of the mess that can result if the USA doesn't take enough interest, and soon enough; arguably. And in this case, they don't like us as much because we didn't answer their call for help.

Again, when did I advocate sending in soldiers?

Changing what another person says is a favorite method of obscuring things.