03-06-2017, 11:49 PM
(03-05-2017, 10:44 PM)bobc Wrote:(03-05-2017, 10:09 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: There was no truth to those emails. They were snips taken out of context, distortions, and outright lies. The Russians and Trump supporters were the originators of "fake news," a slogan that the 1984 Drump has appropriated. Those who investigated leave no doubt that the Russians hacked Podesta's emails. To say otherwise at this point is right-wing propaganda and nothing more. There was nothing illegal going on with Hillary, and the only classified emails on her server were congratulations to African officials. What nonsense, compared to the rampant corruption of Trump and all his minions and appointees. Fact checkers proved that Hillary was one of the most honest candidates, and Trump by far the least honest. Trump does nothing but lie and scream. Those who supported him are responsible for putting a juvenile reactionary in charge of what was a viable democracy. Shame on you bobc for believing all these big lies.
The emails were true. Several Democratic party insiders resigned after specific information about them was released, including rigging the game against Bernie Sanders in the primaries.
Trivialities in contrast to the monstrous deeds and outright lies that Republicans did.
Quote:There was only fake news saying Russia hacked the emails. The best information showed several parties got those emails with password as password, but that it was an insider, probably Seth Rich, who leaked it. He was later killed in a robbery where no money was taken.
Where do I begin? Who was doing the hacking? Let's see... even the defense of the hacking seemed to come with relics of Slavic sentence structure.
Quote:The level of corruption under the Clintons was reaching incredible levels, and now, we the American people, have the chance to drain the swamp.
No. We get a new level of corruption that we Americans could snicker at in recent years because it happened in countries in which the Minister of Transport built a dirt road where a paved road was projected with international aid and agreement because the Minister of Transport transferred the funds for the asphalt went into a numbered Swiss bank account. Donald Trump has more in common with Russian kleptocrats who get monopolistic control of an economic sector and exploit it to the fullest than with T. Boone Pickens, Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, Mark Cuban...
Quote:I'm assuming that you support "progressive" causes. How is corruption, the Clinton foundation bribery machine, mysterious deaths, support of trade agreements made in secret, dirty tricks against the progressive candidate in 2016, helping these causes.
The best way for you to, in the long run, help your causes, would be to support the sweeping away of corruption, shadow government of the intelligence agencies, secret trade deals, over expansion of Federal power, over regulation, dividing the US into hostile interest groups each opposed to each other.
The Clinton Foundation has a very good rating for efficient transmission of funds to charitable ends. It is even economical in its fundraising.
Quote:Then, afterward honest debates between socialism versus free market, nationalism versus one worldism, etc., can occur again.
The honest debates are typically between different manifestations of socialism and of capitalism.
But let's start with three easy statements:
1. Crony capitalism is horrible
2. Feudal orders are nightmares, we hope, exclusively of the discredited past
3. Marxism-Leninism is so tragic a failure that we can reject it.
But I will say this of the Marxists: they are the first to ask the question of what a society is like when its economic system is so successful that it makes poverty unnecessary. Trump and his ilk have a solution: intensify disparities between the very rich and the very poor through monopoly, impose brutal methods of management, and ensure that people live like the proles of 1984, denied any chance to improve their lives but condemned to face a nastier world in which war is a way to keep people scared of freedom and to dispose of surplus population.
Quote:If you are the same Eric I remember in much earlier iterations of this board you were essentially a hippie that believed in spiritualism and ideals from the 1960's. Your current simplisitic assertions of truth and lies, good and evil, just don't do justice to the types of arguments you made 15 or 20 years ago.
And of whom are you an iteration?
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.