Wheels within wheels.

[Eric the Green]

(03-14-2017, 12:38 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: I refer you back to our agreed upon definition of solipsism.

You are talking to yourself.

You can't stop arguing with me because you know that I am right.

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EtI Wrote:Do you think a human being exists separately? Again, that is against science.

I'm pretty sure that it is indisputable (but I'm sure you'll try) biological fact that each human is a discrete and concrete entity.  In English we use the word "person" to denote that entity.

You flunk.

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EtI Wrote:I know all about zero, since that is the amount of matter that exists.

I doubt that you do know about zero at all.  I've confused you with the powers of zero already.

If there is Zero matter that exists then how are you posting?

Only matter matters.

That's right; nothing matters.

Spirit matters. I do everything in spirit. I am God in action and so is everyone and everything.

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EtI Wrote:You are lying to yourself and ignorant of science, then, as I already explained.

This coming from the guy who once claimed that plants made a conscious decision to grow towards light.  This coming from a guy who thinks that astrology can explain anything.  And most importantly this coming from a guy who thinks pretty rocks have healing properties.

Thanks Eric you really made my day.  I've never seen someone so not self-aware as to completely project himself onto an other person.

Back atcha.

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EtI Wrote:The point is the ideas that many people hold, are the basis of the mindsets and moods of those who make up generations and create turnings, and respond to history in their way, etc.

The ideas that people hold are formed by their place in history, which creates their generation and their responses to their place in history create turnings.  Ideas are at most a byproduct of their time and place and not the cause of said time or place.  Otherwise I could make my house 14th century France simply by willing it (but I know, and hopefully--but I'm not holding my breath--you know that is an impossibility).

BTW I've conducted such an experiment...when I was five.  I could do it again but I don't expect different results without having a psychological break down.

With God, all things are possible. Without God, is impossible.

The more conscious you and I are of God, the more of His infinite potential and creative power and wisdom comes into our lives.

I want more of that. Don't you?

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EtI Wrote:You have made up your own mega-theory; it has nothing to do with S&H.

I'm open to that possibility.  However before I can accept that possibility as being true it would need to be demonstrated by someone who actually understands S&H theory (which excludes you--you may have the jargon down but your posts indicate you don't know what the jargon even means) that my hypothesis is not in fact based on S&H.  Even then that does not necessarily make it invalid.

The Two-Stroke Regulator for example is no where mentioned in S&H yet is readily accepted here.

Indeed the very idea of a mega-saeculum first came to me one day when I was winding my pocket watch.  I can't use quartz based watches for some reason--I can put on a brand new watch and it will stop in three days (inb4 EtI posts some mystical nonsense about that)--and I hate having shit on my wrists.

I claim I invented the two-stroke cycle, based on astrology. But I'm sure others thought of it too on their own. The same applies to the mega-cycle; others here got the idea before you did. But it's not valid. Maybe others like mikebert can help you with your own cycle ideology.

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EtI Wrote:You put it in the gilded age, which was a 1T, in both Europe and America

Really, perhaps you should re-read S&H.  I'm pretty sure both the 1880s and 1890s were not a 1T.  And that is where the majority of the work took place.

Hardly. Marx died in 1883. The 2T began in 1886.

Quote:You do realize that Marxism is a materialist philosophy, and as such, according to you cannot have any "insights".

That's your idea, not mine. Yes, you have forgotten everything valuable about Marxism and have embraced its opposite, as you have told me here in this discussion.

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EtI Wrote:The Napoleonic wars era was definitely a 1T era in Europe.

LOL.  Even if you forgot everything you ever read about S&H you'd know that that  1848 is still 33 years after 1815.  Even if you propose that the Napoleonic Wars were 1T (which they weren't Again go read the Hornblower books or any other book about the topic for that matter) that would make it a 3T.

And that discounts the fact that we know that turnings are about a decade behind in Europe as compared to the US.  I'd argue because of an elongated 4T in the RevSaec Mega-Crisis.

A new Eric law: whatever kinser says is invalid.

Your dates are certainly invalid. I have already laid out the European turning dates

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EtI Wrote:Calling the Nation of Islam a religion is insane.

So they don't have a deity, they don't have religious rituals, and they don't have a theology?  Sorry but if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck I have to assume in the absence of contradictory evidence that I have a small aquatic bird of family Anatidae.

Yes, Islam has all those things.

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EtI Wrote:There was clearly no spiritual awakening associated with its emergence. It is merely a kind of nationalist and ethnic extremism.

1.  Never claimed that there was.  Only you Eric have claimed that spiritual awakenings are required for the emergence of cults.  I've always argued that cults form and dissolve "all the time".

Premise. Whatever kinser argues is invalid.
Argument: kinser argues cults dissolve all the time and that religions require no spiritual awakening
Conclusion: kinser's argument is invalid.

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EtI Wrote:I read the Scientology books; I don't get my information about religions from stupid TV shows and sci fi. I studied that religion thoroughly, and you have not.

Are you sure you want to go there?  Anyone can get their books.  How do you think South Park got the material to write about?  They really do believe that that a space man put human souls on the Earth with a feet of space ships that look like Boeing 707s.  Ergo UFO cult.

Like I said, even if I had only read the Wikipedia (I didn't my mother almost got sucked into that garbage--seriously I think with some Boomers just saying something is 'spiritual' makes them want to play with fire) would still be more studying on the topic than you've ever done.

Your nonsensical defense of them more than proves it.  Or is there a deeper issue at play here?  Kinser dislikes X so I, Eric, must uphold X no matter how retarded.

Whatever kinser says in invalid.
Kinser makes claims about his knowledge of scientology.
Conclusion: kinser's claims about scientology is invalid.

It seems to work. Kinser even claims to know that he's read more of scientology than I have, without even knowing how much I have read of it.

Kinser likes Trump
Those who like Trump, think like him
therefore kinser thinks like Trump.

That has been amply demonstrated. kinser probably thinks Obama bugged Trump Tower. Evidence does not matter to Trump, or to kinser.

Quote:You realize he's taught in FL as well, as also IL and IN.  However, for those of us with better things to do with our time we learned just enough to pass the test and then promptly forgot it like so much useless garbage it is. 

Of course. This disproves your claim that Emerson is only known in the northeast. No, he and other transcendentalists are known nationally as some of the most influential American writers.

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EtI Wrote:You admit my point. You exclude genuine spirituality from awakenings. No, lots of people are interested in it.

Not exactly.  Your point was that excluded all spirituality.  I'm not even sure what "genuine spirituality" even means, I'm taking it to mean "Spiritualities that Eric likes".  This is not the case.  I'm merely omitting those spiritualities which are socially irrelevant.

If you have a country with 1 million Christians, and 100 Jews and both have an Awakening, whose Awakening is more socially relevant?  Surely the Christians.  Did the one for the Jews happen?  Well surely it did.  But an event that only affects 0.0001% of the population is at best a rounding error and at worst lost in the noise to signal ratio.

That all doesn't matter. Awakenings include large numbers of non-Christians and non-traditional Christians, in many cases, here in the USA. That's just a fact you choose to ignore, because traditional Christians are an easier target for you to ridicule even than new agers, and because non-traditional spiritualists have mystic experiences and traditional ones don't. I understand that you ridicule both.

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EtI Wrote:The "we" collection is transcended in the experience of oneness, and the we becomes the one. That answers your discussion about we and one. But, we also remain individual expressions of the one.

Lets see if I can make this clear.  "We" is defined as a pronoun: 1. used by a speaker (or writer) to refer to himself or herself and one or more other people considered together; 2.  used in formal contexts for or by a royal person, or by a writer or editor, to refer to himself or herself.

While you might think yourself a King, Eric, everyone else sees the Village Idiot so obviously definition 2 does not apply.  Language is a social construct after all.

As such, "We" can only be used in a collective sense.  Since there is a collective there must be a collection of descrete and concrete individuals.  That is to say more than one.  Ergo there is no one, but rather the many.

Thus:  "We are all one" is a nonsensical statement, usually uttered by those who believe themselves to be profound but are usually just insane.

No, it simply describes a fact about the members of "we". We are all one is a scientific fact. You deny science.

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EtI Wrote:[on Classical Liberalism and Libertarianism]Same god damn thing.

Not quite. Libertarians usually view no role for government in many issues taken up by the state and the federal government.  Classical liberals on the other hand think that except for enumerated powers, the federal government is usurping the state's power to exercise the roles reserved to them or to the people respectively.

Same damn thing. Small details like that don't matter. Classical liberals don't want the state to exercize much power either. It's all about less government.

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EtI Wrote:You wrote incorrectly that the abbreviation was GSP.

Not an argument because you and I both know we're talking about the Great Power Saeculum.  /molyneux

Translation: you can't admit a mistake. But you corrected it anyway. And without my correction you'd still be writing "GSP"

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EtI Wrote:The GPS was not a mega-awakening, but like every saeculum, it had an awakening, which, like all awakenings, included more than the usual amount of spiritual and religious movements.

Again not an argument against my point.  A mega-awakening is the saeculum wherein the great ideas of the mega-saeculum emerge.  This can manifest, but doesn't always, in religious ideologies. 

The GPS Awakening was just an awakening like any other, including the one during which you were born, and all previous ones. It doesn't stand out as an Awakening from the others. It was a foundational time, but that's because of its position on the cycle of civilization as the start of one. Many things were begun then, but most of those changes and aspects of the new cycle were not awakenings.

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EtI Wrote:My current religious affiliation is one of them.

Proving my point.  I'm not going to bother with the rest because it is nonsense.  I've already explained what the default "spirituality" is.

As have I. That I am affiliated with a movement that originated in the GPS Awakening, merely illustrates that it was an Awakening, not a mega-awakening.

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EtI Wrote:In the case of the spiritual or what you call religious ideas, the important thing is not the ideas, but the experiences behind them.

Wrong.  Mystical experiences are completely irrelevant on the social and historical plane.  Even with we agreed that these experiences occur, and I'm not sure that we do or don't, they cannot be shared amongst people.  At most they can be described or explained which leads us to....  Religious ideas on the other hand are extremely relevant.  The Apostle Paul had an experience on the road to Damascus--but was that experience the important thing in history or the fact that he converted to the Christian idea and then proceeded to spread that idea.

You could argue that had Paul not had that experience  he would not have become a Christian and then spread the Christian idea, but the point is moot because what he spread was the idea not the experience

Out of his experience came his whole career as an apostle, and all his wisdom. Mystic experiences are shared all the time through the arts, philosophy, ceremonies, books, relationships, etc. They can be shared, because mystical experience is the foundational experience of all life everywhere. It IS life.

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EtI Wrote:Just because you are an Xer and therefore seem to be allergic or immune to such experiences, does not mean the rest of us are as well.

I would like to think that I am immune to insanity considering asylums are filled with people who've had mystical experiences.

Go ahead, make my day. Prove this assertion with real statistics from real expert sources.

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EtI Wrote:Why should I knock Xers?

I don't see why not since you already do.  Its okay though, you'll all be dead soon and then we can have 15 or so years of peace before the world goes to hell again.

Sorry, but many prophets live on into the 1T, especially now that life spans have increased. The Democratic House and Republican Senate leaders are Silents well into the 4T. They don't seem to be going anywhere. Boomers will have corresponding positions well into the 1T, although they may be mid to late boomers.

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EtI Wrote:You admit that you reject the most recent 2T, so you have no part in implementing its ideas in the 4T, as proven by the fact that you very actively support the candidate whose sole mission is to oppose these ideas.

Eric, Eric, Eric.  I admitted that a long time ago.  I know it is difficult to keep up what with being everything, and everyone at all times and places but surely the Kinser part of your consciousness told you before I did that I soundly rejected everything associated with the 2T about the time I sprouted hair on my jimmy.

Yes, yes I did.  In fact I supported him precisely because he was opposed to those ideas.  But as you can see, we won, and are winning and I plan on winning so much that I get tired of winning.

But will you never get tired of losing, once the saeculum rolls, and the ideas of the 2T form the 4T as they always do?

Quote:Just remember we've got the numbers and we've got Generation Z coming up behind us and they HATE everything that came out of the 2T except the parts about not hating people on the basis of their race/sex/orientation.  Oh wait, the Silents did that part.

Well, that's a big part that you yourself have thrown over by supporting Drump.

How do you know that today's 5 and 10 years olds hate the 2T? Prove it.

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EtI Wrote:Nonsense; infinite means it cannot be measured, and there is no such thing as "close to infinite."

You should take that up with cosmologists.  So far as we know the universe is 14 billion light years across. but it is still expanding with no signs of slowing down so it could theoretically be infinite.  And yet we've already measured that 14 billion light years part.

So if an object is in fact infinite, we can indeed measure finite parts of that infinite thing.

Nope, you can't. If the universe is infinite, then the most you can ever say about it is that it is here and now, which is what mystics say. If anything is infinite, it rolls back to zero.

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EtI Wrote:I don't care, which is why I am not commenting further.

Honestly you shouldn't have commented to start with.  Every time you tangle with me you just make yourself look like a fool.

I am not tangling with you. That's how YOU roll. I am just amusing myself. Wasting time, no doubt. But, one of my mentors Alan Watts said that time is to be wasted.