06-07-2017, 02:59 PM
(06-07-2017, 01:05 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:(06-07-2017, 11:50 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:(06-06-2017, 07:44 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:(06-06-2017, 02:34 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:(06-06-2017, 12:32 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: And yet China continues to belch emissions from coal burning. All those wafer fabs they have? Are mostly coal powered. Gotta love it.
Meanwhile in Europe wind farms are now being shut down and dismantled. Too much negative ROI. A complete financial disaster. The US has a better record for wind. We seem to have a better knack for knowing how to fit wind into our grid. Our wind farms are less loss making than the ones in Europe. A few are even slightly in the black.
And yet with all the so-called failures which skeptics assume have happened in Europe, they remained committed to going green. With Trump's betrayal, they have decided to speed things up. They will succeed, and we will fail, because a dufus got "elected" to be our so-called president. Once China gets all those solar plants and panels working, of course, then they won't need coal to power their wafer plants. The skeptics always make these absurd demands on the "warmists:" if you don't need fossil fuels, then let's see YOU do totally without them now. And if China still burns coal, then their conversion to solar is bunk. No, THAT is bunk. Transitions don't happen by waving a magic wand; it takes time, and it takes government support too.
China would rather ship their crappy solar panels to the US and Europe. Meanwhile they burn coal for their own needs. It's cheap. It's easy. And even though they are not as endowed with coal as the US, heck, they get it easily from the Aussies. And if the Aussies raise prices or try to make a tougher deal? I mentioned previously Beijing's Surge for the Strait of Malacca. I digress. The Chinese can stand up a coal fired power plant in mere months. What's not to like if you are China?
Ask the ghost of Stan Ovshinky, and the employees who worked for him, about how the Chinese destroyed the US PV device industry.
China is building solar plants and stopping coal plants. Their solar panels are fine; they are being used here to good effect. They are moving; in the USA, only blue states and cities are moving. I hope that's enough for now, until we can get the pests out of our government.
Eric have you ever been involved in high tech manufacturing in China? Chinese PV gear is not fine. It's crap. But, unscrupulous contractors love them some China Price and pocket the difference. The person or firm who got suckered into paying for the junk PV gear will be sorry 10 years (or less) after installation.
What counts, it seems to me, is what's happening now, not what one person experienced with some other chinese technology years ago.
There's no point in this field to go by personal impression and nationalist feelings. The facts are what counts when it comes to climate change and alternative energy.
Here's one website I found that sheds some light. There are others.
http://www.solarpowerbeginner.com/chines...anels.html
(quote
According to the New York Times, China now has the manufacturing capacity to produce over half of the world's solar panels. The sheer size of the Chinese solar industry means that we need to break things down if we're going to get any meaningful results.
Let's split the Chinese solar companies into two groups:
- "The Big Three"
- Suntech
- Yingli
- Trina Solar
- Suntech
- "The Others"
Suntech is no less than the largest solar manufacturer in the world. When you buy Suntech solar panels, therefore, you will also be purchasing the peace of mind that comes with a 25 year warranty backed by the biggest player in the industry.
Note: The 25 year warranty guarantees power output, but Suntech has also extended their limited product warranty from five to ten years.
Suntech also offers a high efficiency version of their solar panels known as Pluto panels.
Yingli Solar is another giant Chinese solar company. According to Businessweek, Yingli is the world's sixth largest producer of solar cells and solar panels. This means that Yingli is also a vertically integrated solar company (The company not only manufactures solar panels but also produces the raw polysilicon and the solar cells used in the modules).
Yingli stands behind their products with the same ten and twenty five year warranties that Suntech offers.
Yingli has also come out with a high end panel called the Panda Module. This panel is a high efficiency monocrystalline offering.
[*]Trina Solar is another big, vertically integrated Chinese solar company. Trina also offers the same 10 year product warranty and 25 year power warranty we saw with the other big players.
Trina has also announced a premium line of high efficiency solar panels based on their so-called "Honey" technology.
All three of these companies have been around for over a decade and have established themselves as major players in a very competitive market. In other words: They're a pretty safe bet when you're looking to spend some dollars on solar power.
Also, with the "Pluto", "Panda", and "Honey" panels from these companies, you can get premium Chinese solar panels without having to worry about "premium Chinese" being an oxymoron.
[*]So we've looked at the good, now what about the not-so-good?
[*]Trying to name different companies that are producing low quality Chinese solar panels won't help much since those companies could close their doors tomorrow with others taking their place. Instead you should remember to follow these basic rules when considering purchasing solar panels (or anything else):
- Find out how long the company has been around
- Talk to others who have purchased the company's products
- Look for a warranty (and try to make sure the company will be around to answer to it)
This general advice holds true because buying solar panels from China is really the same as buying them from anywhere else. There are reputable companies producing high quality goods and there are fly-by-night companies that might be out of business long before their warranties expire.