Looking Toward The Next High

[Eric the Green]

(06-04-2018, 03:34 AM)TheNomad Wrote:

(06-04-2018, 12:44 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(06-02-2018, 11:27 PM)TheNomad Wrote:

(06-02-2018, 08:53 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(06-02-2018, 04:18 PM)TheNomad Wrote: The Prophets may have been the needed outrage in youth but their place in their cycle now is ONLY culture wars.  That is just what I believe.  Either side, all sides.  You say "whoever is saying and doing the right things" but they all say the right things and then DO the the destructive things anyway.  It's totally acceptable now for any politician to stand in front of people to say one thing then do the exact opposite.  That's how the system works.

You can't say that voting is the answer because no matter what color the winner is, they are indebted to the Powers behind the scenes OR THEY WOULDN'T BE THE WINNER.  The Powers of Corporatocracy decides who wins.  I don't believe we can ask or expect elected officials to change something like gerrymandering when their Corporate Constituents are benefiting from it.

We need to believe, and know, that it can be changed, and that many politicians do the right things. Or else the 4T you don't want continues forever.

Quote:The younger people must have the moral compass to resist this evil and that's the only way it can change.  I do see a moral compass on the scene, but not yet with enough power to transform yet.  I do not think the aging boomers will join them except maybe as a photo op or a planned association to benefit their own campaigns like "LOOK we identify with these people" but then they will just go and do what they do anyway.  They are liars.  Nomads will and certainly the "helpmate" artists will. 

I disagree

Quote:As for mom & pop, no I can't see a return of that.  It's too late.  I only used that as an example of how incessant greed and abuse on the consumer was sort of held accountable because society was "smaller" and you went down the street to buy food products or a TV set from someone in the neighborhood you knew and who knew you.  There was a connection, and that lessened the ability for faceless entities of The Corporation to take advantage of everyone.  I miss when I was a kid going to the video store, I knew the owner, they knew me and my family, it was a nice experience and I was not gouged for someone's balance sheet.  But can I say the same for Netflix, for example.  They don't know me nor me them.  Or f@cebook who view all of us as chattel to be data-mined and exploited to the extreme.  When you first join up the f@acebook you are greeted by a picture of Murk Suckerburg on the screen as if he's your friend guiding you to the social gathering of your friends and family.  To me that's the same as when you call any customer service about a problem and the AUTOMATED VOICE apologizes to you that you've experienced a problem.  Seriously?  Does anyone beside me think of these things?  A ROBOT basically is apologizing to you.  That's really offensive.  For example, where I live has terrible internet service that gets "scheduled maintenance" probably 3-4 times per week between the hours of midnight and 6am.  I'm losing money because I'm constantly without the services I pay for.  I call as many times as I can and ask for a refund for the lack of service.  But only after 20 minutes of music and waiting and automated apologies designed to make you hang up so you DON'T get a refund. 

Suckerberg lol

Maybe millennials won't want to follow blue gray champions, but for a while, they will need to vote, as the younger generation says, for those elders who share their values and knowledge.

Quote:As you've said in second paragraph, it isn't about legislative reform so much as it is about PEOPLE who arrive with actual humanity.  People who have a moral compass, people that fill these "slots" who are not looking to some law or edict to force them into a better morality, for that must come from within.  I do hope this Hero Millenial generation has that trait and from what I see, I can envision that happening.

The boomers in the 2T sought to develop this. Your generation views us as having failed in that. However, your generation also rejects the spiritual renaissance that provided the means for people to discover their spirit and morals within.

Quote:Cynicism is often a good thing.  How many past generations got frakked because they trusted the government, the voting system, the party system......... they are OK with only being provided 2 candidates for everything, and those two candidates are THE SAME PERSON usually..... both will make almost identical promises, assure people they will "work across the aisle" and then everyone is dissatisfied with the 2 choices and ALWAYS vote for the lesser of 2 evils.  I cannot remember a time when America actually voted for someone they WANTED as opposed to who they DID NOT want.  This could be said of Reagan, Clinton, Obama.......... but even with them, a huge percent of people did not want them at all even though they won by large margins.  I try not to leave those people out because they, too, are Americans and even though I may not agree with their views, they have the right to WANT a candidate instead of settling for the less of 2 worst.

Cynicism can be a good thing, to a point; until it stops people from taking action, voting and participating. Then, it's not good. An idealistic pragmatic realism accepts the obvious truth that candidates won't do everything you want them to do. Incremental progress is better than none. And though I usually vote beyond the two main parties, I recognize that in this system, any progress is better than regression, and that's the blue vs. red choice. Xers are supposed to be pragmatic. Those who are, put aside emotion and look at the facts and strategies of what will actually work.

Quote:The authors do describe a semi return to mom&pop business ideals...... I can't envision a world without walmart or home depot (not because I want them but because how hard is it to UNINSTALL such things after the fact?).  I'm a cynic in that I don't believe a global economic model can be stopped even though that is the source of so many ills in our American society.  We can't go back. 

We can, however, look forward and finally get ahead of the curve.  We can begin stopping things before they happen.  But the problem with that is no one wants to or can believe or understand the terrors waiting around the corner and do nothing to stop it.  America takes 50+ years to identify and believe a scam affecting millions.  It wasn't until 1992 and the movie JFK that people as a whole began to accept that was a plot to remove someone in power who would not cave to the Military Industrial Complex. 

Yes, we can stop it. "We can, however, look forward and finally get ahead of the curve." Yes. But if Xers such as you and beechnut are not willing to work and vote in alliance with blue boomers, it probably can't happen, because no generation can do what is needed to be done by itself without the others. Boomers still have a lot of the votes and the leadership, and there are good ones to work with.

No, your example of JFK does not fly. JFK was murdered by Oswald acting alone. All the facts on that are well proven, and open and shut. I looked into it myself very thoroughly. No case was ever more clear-cut. This was the granddaddy of today's conspiracy theories, and I once believed it too. But conspiracy theories today are almost all bogus, and contribute to cynicism that is destructive. The Establishment may be bad, but it is not as bad as people think who view the world through the lens of conspiracy theories. "9-11 truth" is another one that doesn't hold up entirely. There is no need to exaggerate using conspiracy theory. The facts are bad enough by themselves. We need to learn this. There's no need to debate JFK. People can look into it for themselves quite easily.

Quote:Further, remember all those JFK documents that were supposed to be released?  They keep getting pushed back.  Why?  Because Bush The First is still alive and the Bush family of that generation (Prescott, etc) have the blood on their hands.  Believe me, when Bush The First finally expires, we will finally find the connections (they've already been found but no mainstream media will touch it) and that's what I mean when the COURSE of American evil is identified too late, nothing can be done.  Even now, no one will say that CAPITALISM is causing major problems and Crisis in America.  The Corporation came before Bush II in 2008 and basically said "if you don't give us all the money we are asking for, there will be economic collapse".  How is that different from walking into a bank with a gun and demanding all the cash? 

They got away with it. The powers that be, including Xers, have not been willing to put the greedy ones in their place. I don't know to what extent millennials will do this.

Quote:Maybe it should have been allowed to collapse (if it was even real to begin with).  And who ended up with that money?  Was it filtered down to the average worker?  No.  It was supplied to executives and politicians for their golden parachutes and for their 7th yacht docked in the island of Scorpia.  What kind of America have we become in the last 70+ years?  Our leaders have no interest in what happens to us, they blatantly steal from us.

That's true. And it is mainly the Republicans who are responsible, although some Democrats are complicit. This is a matter of politics, for sure. Political policies created all this. It was deliberate. Business is not held accountable in the Republican trickle-down ideology. It is allowed to get away with anything. Progressive Democrats favor the regulations that were taken down which do prevent this crap from happening. Yes they do.

Quote:A really cool symbolism I heard was that there used to be SLAVERY.  Humans were used as basically cattle to perform tasks so the wealthy could be wealthy.  But there was a problem.  The slave owners had to feed and house their slaves.  So an innovation was made.  There are still slaves, except now, the slaves must feed and house THEMSELVES.  This wipes a huge expense off the slave-owners' bottom line.  Ridiculous rent, unbelievable housing prices, the cost of food and clothing, etc.  The slave is still SERVING except the Master no longer has to accommodate them on-site or assist their day-to-day living.  That's some REAL shit!

True enough, I'm in agreement.

I will come back to the rest of this post because there are good arguments.  But for now:

You said: The boomers in the 2T sought to develop this. Your generation views us as having failed in that. However, your generation also rejects the spiritual renaissance that provided the means for people to discover their spirit and morals within.

The spiritual renaissance which sought desperately to not give birth to us so they could explore their selfish dreams and sexual fantasies, and the morals that made killing us in the womb legal.  So, if you guys had it your way, we wouldn't even exist and you would be frolicking in the poppy fields into elderhood with The Doors anthology on a loop.  

Just to be clear, YOU maybe got to explore your inner discovery.  WE got fast lessons on how to use a microwave and no one cared where we were after the sun went down.  Even your intimate knowledge of your own generation and what you feel it was meant to be possibly betrays you didn't even pay attention to what you guys did to your kids in the Nomad position. 

I realize not everyone is the same.  But for the most part, you ARE all pretty much the same to a point.  It's all about YOU.  

Nomad gets the shaft from in the womb forward, Boomer blames Nomad for everything they can, Millennial can't tell the difference and Artist is too busy handjobbing the Millennial to acknowledge the others.  Yet, I'm no complainer.

The consciousness revolution of the 2T was for everyone, and remains open to everyone. It is about a fuller, richer life, and those of us in the movement believe that means finding a better life for everyone. "frolicking" and discovery of the inner life is for everyone. We did need to reduce the children we had (I "neglected" my children to such an extent that I did not have any at all), and some silent and boomer parents neglected their children too. That was the nomad's lot. I hear that, but on the other hand, it also enabled you to be more self-reliant, self-directed and pragmatic survivalists; the mark and talent of your generation. There were advantages to your plight, as well as difficulties. One advantage you had, being part of a less-numerous generation than boomers, was less competition for available jobs. That was very hard for me to deal with.

To resent what your elders did, and thereby reject the spiritual renaissance that we and others started, and that is part of a heritage that goes back millennia, is not an advantage to you though. But it's your choice whether to do that. It is all open to you, and opening to spirit does have its moral dividends too, and we wanted it for everyone. 

You correctly noted that it takes more than politics to being about a better world. I just pointed out that this requires the spiritual renaissance that you guys have rejected. It would be wise for your generation to take another look, now that you are grown and can look past your resentment of elders, just as we boomers had to do when we were grown. The only non-political means to bring the growth in moral awareness that you say we need, is to pursue this spiritual renaissance and inner discovery which, when understood, does not promote selfishness, no matter how selfish many boomers actually were and still are.

I guess these internet discussions are fun. But sadly, it rarely results in any exchange of knowledge or opening to alternative ideas or feelings. Mere words on a screen are not very convincing, and don't resonate very deeply. That is true in our dialogue. I explained why 9-11 is not the crisis, and you just re-posted your question; there you go....

I need to be sick more often to be seeing posts!  But if you responded to 911 no crisis I must have missed it? will look.

But I gotta say: That was the nomad's lot. I hear that, but on the other hand

That is the Nomad's life.  "WE HEAR YOU, BUT...".  Then you want to include everyone into the renaissance.  I have no ill-will for positive thinking nor for realizing what about my childhood was awesome and what sucked.  But it's amazing the glossing over and the "well, just look on the bright side" that doesn't happen to millennial children.

Also, I'm for real.  You can take every word on the screen for what I'm about.  My written word skills are SO exceptional as to convey the
version of my best self and with a communication level far exceeding most. 

When I first looked, I wanted to agree with the renaissance idea being an answer to this evil we see in Corporatacracy and super-wealthy kin scheming to stay up there at our expense.  But according to the Strauss & Howe ideas it is the opposite.  Prophets are a dark-mirror image of Heroes.  It is the very inner renaissance of the prophets which bring so much entropy and doom.  The Heroes are NOT inner-directed souls on a path to bio-enlightenment, they are outer-directed souls on a path to systemic transformation.

So, you may be confused (with all respect, sir).

 

S&H did not say prophets are a dark mirror image of heroes. They say all archetypes are necessary to the process. Prophet idealism provides the direction and blueprint for reform and change during the 4T. That blueprint is there for us. Yes, that's correct about Heroes. They are outer-directed and will be primarily interested in systemic transformation. And that will be about politics. The majority of what is needed to change the corporatacracy now is political. Even so, the next 10 years will not transform it entirely; It will still be there. I hope and expect some reforms which will set our political process back on the right path. During the 1T these reforms will be consolidated and extended. But the next Second Turning, when the Alpha Prophets come of age and Gen Z is in midlife, will bring back the consciousness revolution both outwardly and inwardly, and it will fulfill many of the goals of the sixties revolution and further extend the spiritual renaissance inwardly and the green revolution outwardly.

S&H do point to the consciousness revolution as having the side effect of too much inner focus and narcissism. But that is because American culture is not able to understand and pursue inward transformation as it truly is. Our culture is too commercial, materialist and self-centered to begin with, for it not to coopt a spiritual renaissance. But there were many boomers and other participants who pursued it well. And they became good, supportive parents to millennials. It has brought transformation to a degree; just not enough. That just means it must continue. In a healthy society, spirituality continues through all turnings, whereas in ours, so far, it has only happened in 2Ts, with only non-spiritual traditional religion happening in the other turnings. 

The consciousness revolution is the only path to putting our moral and inner lives on a higher plane. Our nation needs to become a spiritual and not a materialist one. You say politics alone can't transform the corporatocracy. That is true; but then the only alternative is to transform ourselves and our worldview; the way we perceive ourselves and the world. There's a third alternative though; and that's just to be cynical and let things unfold the way they are going now. I don't see that as resulting in anything but the rapid decline and fall of our society. Gen Xers need to look beyond resentment and critique of the consciousness revolution, and instead embrace it and what it offers both outwardly and inwardly.

If millennials are not told to look on the bright side, it's because they naturally do, and Xers don't. The millennials got more support in childhood than Xers did. So yes, Xers need to cultivate just enough hope and idealism to be able to contribute their pragmatic and managerial talents to working through the crisis and emerging into the 1T which they will oversee.

It's hard to believe that we prophets will be over the hill and start disappearing just 10 years from now. Boomers to me will always be the "new generation," and I will always see them as dedicated to transforming the world, even if most of us have had our inspiration and dedication to higher consciousness and social and economic idealism just dry up and fade away. But I think some of us will continue to be young in heart and body, and keep on contributing and helping to lead the way forward in the 1T to come in just 10 years.