The New Crisis War Unfolding Now?

[pbrower2a]

(07-18-2018, 11:01 PM)TheNomad Wrote: I appreciate ALL your comments above Eric de Verde, that post was a mess so I couldn't reply.. the code was out of control.

you said: Full disclosure: l am a pacifist & l really don't care to see us get involved in any wars. Do you think it's possible to get thru a Crisis without a war?

Afghanistan, Ireland, Portugal, Saudi Arabia, Sweden, Switzerland, and Turkey basically avoided World War II, getting through the Crisis without any formal involvement in war. (Spain had its own destructive civil war, so it got into a different Crisis).

Avoiding wars in a Crisis Era is a matter of luck, if not wise choices by political leaders.

Quote:THIS was what struck me,, as something to bring out more dialogue.  Due to the interaction here along with gauging my interaction with others of a Prophet archetype, I do not believe it is possible to move through the 4th without war.  Why?  Because the Prophet demands it.  They crave it.  They want it so badly it is akin to visceral vampirism, skulking the night to kill for the sake of draining that hot viscid life-blood for their own DESIRE.

But the Prophet generation might do everything possible to avoid war and only delay its start (think of Neville Chamberlain).  Except for Stalin and Antonescu, all of the aggressors were Nomads. But the Prophet with a healthy moral compass and a good understanding of history can draw upon history (not always one's own -- Cato's Carthago delenda est sounds much like what Churchill had to say about Hitler).

Prophets saddled with a war not their liking want to get it over with so that their society can most fully live in accordance with its ideals. Like FDR and Lincoln, their dislike of war does not preclude them from waging it efficiently and ferociously as needed.  

Quote:Yes, I have come to this conclusion recently.  The Prophet - as a whole - does not care about anyone.  They are wholly selfish and self-centered beings who believe every emotion, thought, proverb and revelation begins and ends when THEY THEMSELVES experience it.  Whether the need for final WAR comes from them being disillusioned with their (even by posh standards) "comfortable" life throughout -- from childhood to elderhood -- they still are never satisfied?  Or perhaps it is because they believe their own lives and life cycle to SO UTTERLY IMPORTANT that the end of their cycle must be as a giant orgasm upon the world simply to say WE WERE HERE.  I cannot tell.

No, that is how Prophets are if they have never experienced a humbling experience that establishes the humaneness that makes people tolerable as leaders or have never questioned the assumptions of their privileged backgrounds. This can explain why Dubya and Trump are wholly unfit as Crisis-Era leaders; they do not know how to deal with difficulties. But all in all, the dividing line (1882/1883) that puts FDR (who had many Reactive traits) in the Prophet category and Mussolini in the Reactive category might have been placed between 1961 and 1962 instead of 1960 and 1961 if Obama were as successful as FDR.

We have yet to have a President born in the 1950s, especially the late 1950s; leadership born in the late 1950s so far seems mediocre at best. So far I see Donald Trump as a disgrace, and we are lucky as a nation that someone so awful has not brought this country down. Maybe we have traditions stronger than he is, and that is all that can save America.

Quote:As the text says, the Prophets see themselves in this manner.  When they are in full power, it is a battle until the end no matter what.

Nothing says that Donald Trump is the last act of the Boom Generation. As a Boomer I can imagine far better. Well, there was Obama, was there not? Although he seems much like a 60-ish Reactive (think of Truman or Eisenhower between 1945 and 1961), he is the sort of leader that America typically gets after the Crisis is over.

Assuming that Donald Trump is not re-elected as President (far too many things have gone wrong, and he is fortunate so far that he has simply hurt and insulted the same people who were never going to vote for him anyway-- but he will likely start hurting other people), the dividing line between Boomer and X at the time of the 2020 election will be just short of the 60th birthday. Yes, Obama turns 60 in 2021. At this stage, can you guess what age the President inaugurated on January 20, 2021 will be? We have elected Presidents in their early-to-middle 40s and near 70. Your guess is as good as mine because there are so many possible candidates.

But being an Idealist/Prophet or Reactive/Nomad may not mean as much as having a healthy attitude toward humanity as a whole, having a healthy respect for history as a guide, not being cranky or muddled, and strict adherence to legal precedent and diplomatic protocol, and making moral choices when those are alternatives to cruelty.

Quote:Their dogma MUST prevail.  Oswald MUST be the shooter because otherwise, their entire life cycle is unbalanced and all the "knowledge" and beliefs they have accrued must be re-examined and redefined.  And that is the last thing they want to do.

The Kennedy assassination occurred over fifty years ago. What current consequences does it now have? Possibly less now than the airplane crash that killed Buddy Holly and Richie Valens (the Day the Music Died). I have yet to hear of any deathbed confessions of persons who might have made arrangements to get Lee Harvey Oswald into a position in which to kill JFK... I would not treat Oliver Stone's excellent movie JFK as a source.

Quote:There is a reason they are called PROPHET.  Because all the rest of us are to sit at their feet and receive their wisdom (whatever that may be).  We are subjugates to them, their lives, their beliefs and values.  That is how they view themselves and us no matter if they will ever openly recognize it or understand it.  So, they act in a manner that fully foments and propagates war............. due largely in part due to their own values and nothing more.  They would trample the whole earth if it meant bringing the "gospel" to the rest of us.

 
There are good prophets and false prophets. Donald Trump is a prophet of a bad America, one inequitable, hierachical, and repressive.

Quote:Nuclear war?  IT DOESN'T MATTER TO THEM.  It reminds me of caustic regimes and tribalism throughout history......... Huns and Vikings pillaging the land as they go, taking what they need...... but combine that with entities such as Rome or Constantinople or Persia of old or dare I saw even Nazi Germany..................... when VALUES are being IMPOSED on others for the sake of a religious belief or "bringing the Light/Truth to the world".  We must remember, even the Nazi powers believed they were spreading a "truth" to the world.  We must never forget how the imposition of VALUES on others have brought misery and dread to the world even into modernity.

I like to think we have moved past that now.  That we would no longer have these sacred cow idols of idolatry (and that is truly what they are, thinking ONLY of themselves on an exalted plane above the rest of us) bringing war and strife to the world.

Most Boomers really do care about their children and grandchildren, nieces and nephews, etc. Or simply Humanity as a whole. It's up to us Americans to be better than our leadership when such is pathological. Just because someone tells me that it is a patriotic duty to exterminate people whom I have recently seen as a 'model minority' (think of Jews in Hitlerland) does not mean that it is my patriotic duty to do so.

Quote:I'll end this with my own personal belief that I do not agree with Israel.

From this point I have nothing to say. I have no desire to deal with your anti-Israel, anti-Jewish screed. Let it be known that I have contemplated conversion to Reform Judaism because it seems to fit my philosophical positions better than any other religious tradition.