(07-19-2018, 12:38 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:(07-18-2018, 11:01 PM)TheNomad Wrote: I appreciate ALL your comments above Eric de Verde, that post was a mess so I couldn't reply.. the code was out of control.
you said: Full disclosure: l am a pacifist & l really don't care to see us get involved in any wars. Do you think it's possible to get thru a Crisis without a war?
THIS was what struck me,, as something to bring out more dialogue. Due to the interaction here along with gauging my interaction with others of a Prophet archetype, I do not believe it is possible to move through the 4th without war. Why? Because the Prophet demands it. They crave it. They want it so badly it is akin to visceral vampirism, skulking the night to kill for the sake of draining that hot viscid life-blood for their own DESIRE.
Yes, I have come to this conclusion recently. The Prophet - as a whole - does not care about anyone. They are wholly selfish and self-centered beings who believe every emotion, thought, proverb and revelation begins and ends when THEY THEMSELVES experience it. Whether the need for final WAR comes from them being disillusioned with their (even by posh standards) "comfortable" life throughout -- from childhood to elderhood -- they still are never satisfied? Or perhaps it is because they believe their own lives and life cycle to SO UTTERLY IMPORTANT that the end of their cycle must be as a giant orgasm upon the world simply to say WE WERE HERE. I cannot tell.
As the text says, the Prophets see themselves in this manner. When they are in full power, it is a battle until the end no matter what.
Welcome back with your comments from the nomad perspective. Remember that civics and prophets have a different perspective from yours, though. Interactions at this forum for 20 years have shown me that it is rather the Xers, not the boomers, who tend to be the extremists and stubborn ones, while boomers are measured and calm by comparison. Maybe I am more extreme and stubborn than some of them.
But I am mostly a pacifist too, and so are many boomers. That's because, unlike the prophets before WWII, the civil war, revolution, etc., this generation of prophets experienced a war greater in scale than any second-turning prophet-youth era war in history. We do know war, and we don't want it. Also, that war was the most unnecessary bloodshed in history, so we know how useless and utterly unjust war can be.
Prophets can be selfish, no doubt. Many of us along with our silent elders have become economically piggy, and boomers like to hang on to their positions and are often egotistical and stubborn bosses. This is ironic since it is the boomers, not the Xers and millennials, who pioneered the emphasis on independent entrepreneurship in careers that are fulfilling and not just by rote and obedience.
Quote:Their dogma MUST prevail. Oswald MUST be the shooter because otherwise, their entire life cycle is unbalanced and all the "knowledge" and beliefs they have accrued must be re-examined and redefined. And that is the last thing they want to do.
Oswald was the shooter and there was no effective conspiracy (there were conspiracies that were not carried out) to kill JFK, because that is simply the fact, which anyone who looks at the evidence honestly and thoroughly will agree with. That has nothing to do with what generation you are in, and nothing to do with beliefs to be reexamined. In my case, my "belief" was that JFK was killed by a conspiracy. Re-examination convinced me that beliefs about facts are not relevant, and conspiracy theories are delusional and lead many people today into fanatical, irrational ideas and support for demagogues who profess these theories. These conspiracy theories exist on all sides of the political spectrum, and are leading to a culture of unreason and superstition with dire consequences.
Quote:There is a reason they are called PROPHET. Because all the rest of us are to sit at their feet and receive their wisdom (whatever that may be). We are subjugates to them, their lives, their beliefs and values. That is how they view themselves and us no matter if they will ever openly recognize it or understand it. So, they act in a manner that fully foments and propagates war............. due largely in part due to their own values and nothing more. They would trample the whole earth if it meant bringing the "gospel" to the rest of us.
Nuclear war? IT DOESN'T MATTER TO THEM. It reminds me of caustic regimes and tribalism throughout history......... Huns and Vikings pillaging the land as they go, taking what they need...... but combine that with entities such as Rome or Constantinople or Persia of old or dare I saw even Nazi Germany..................... when VALUES are being IMPOSED on others for the sake of a religious belief or "bringing the Light/Truth to the world". We must remember, even the Nazi powers believed they were spreading a "truth" to the world. We must never forget how the imposition of VALUES on others have brought misery and dread to the world even into modernity.
I don't think you could prove your claims that all wars in history were caused by prophet generational members, and certainly not that values are dangerous things in themselves. The social "gospel" of the missionaries brought many needed progressive reforms in our society that made it livable for a long while. The anti-slavery "gospel" of the abolitionists corrected an inherent injustice as great as has existed in any society. The earlier gospel revivals that promoted a new nation acting as a beacon of freedom led to such a democratic republic as we have here, and around the world. And the Nazi leader was a nomad generation member. We can depend on many nomad generation members to be insensitive to values and instead to impose mind-numbing dictatorships, just as the T4T authors warned us about for this time. Now that they are the most-represented in congress, Generation X supports the most mindless right-wing cabal in American history, which is currently at the helm of our government. They in great numbers along with boomers make up the "freedom caucus," which is the most reactionary and downright stupid group to hold office on this continent since the days of Dixie.
Quote:I like to think we have moved past that now. That we would no longer have these sacred cow idols of idolatry (and that is truly what they are, thinking ONLY of themselves on an exalted plane above the rest of us) bringing war and strife to the world.
Far from moving past the danger of idolatry and strife, our current prophet leader and his prophet and nomad cabal has created and imposed upon us the worst government in our history, bent on imposing selfish greed as a creed upon all of us, and emulating the cabal of dictators like those of the Mussolini era (and our current president IS Mussolini reincarnate), and admiring and cavorting with the recent cabal of dictators who have taken over in many places in our similar era today.
Quote:I'll end this with my own personal belief that I do not agree with Israel. It was installed as a Western ally in a region the West wanted to control and was done under the guise of some religious ideology that "Jews" would return "home" to their "land of ancestry".
As soon as rump or obama or reagan or clinton gives Montana (or I dare say California) back to the "ancestors" then I will believe it is right. Or when the queen offers Wales back to the Welsh or something of that nature. The strife of the mid-east IS Israel. And if ANY PERSON responds to this post with the word "antisemitism" I would first rebuke you in advance to examine the definition of that word to know it ALSO applies to IRAQ and SYRIA so why isn't that word used when attacking THOSE places?
The summation being, we are at odds with Iran and probably will war with them before this 4th is done BECAUSE OF ISRAEL. We cannot undo it now. The creation of modern Israel is probably the final mistake of the modern age of such grand nature. Let's hope we don't continue making more of those idiotic decisions.
I'll even add more fire to this: if giving "people" their own homeland due to persecution and even killings, why are Americans who are here IN America due to ancestors taken against their will as slaves........... why are those people not being given the state of Virginia or Nevada for themselves? If such a thing as a wonderful idea, the United States should have a state for native peoples, for children of slaves, for asians imprisoned during wwii for simply being asian, and a jewish state in utah.
If it is such a good idea, why are we not giving peoples their own land HERE? Iran keeps saying "if you want Israel WHY didn't you carve up something for them in Europe"? to which I say "I GET THAT".
I am not saying Israel has done something overtly to cause problems. Yet, it is almost illegal to challenge Israel as doing anything underhanded for that word being thrown at you............... it begins with A and ends with M and is ALWAYS misused.
So, now we look forward to a Prophet-wrought war with Iran because Prophets from a DIFFERENT SAECULUM(!) created a Western ally in Israel under the guise of some magic bible prophecy.
I am in general agreement with the above; Israel has and may still drag us into war. I would not oppose Israel if governed by a sensible leader willing to make peace, but the Israelis seem unable to come up with or support such a leader. Jews =/= Israel, although many American Jews are attached to it and support it fanatically and defensively, which is why American politicians bow to it. I don't know if Israel was created with support from only Missionary Generation people from the West, however; another assertion of yours which probably can't be proven. Israel was born of the Zionists in the world war one era, and established after world war two. Lots of different generations involved. Dogmatic opposition to prophets and insulting them is not a good idea when we need prophet leaders today, and boomers and late-cohort boomers are the only ones available today who are capable and charismatic enough to confront and defeat the Cheeto in Chief (but very capable demagogue) boomer.
I Am going to work on an exegesis concerning why I believe the Prophet archetype is at the root of all strife and conflict in the Saeculum. I shouldn't have to do thAt since strauus/Howe are pretty much saying just that in the texts we are all apparently here to discuss. Thanks for your comments and I have no hated for anyone here... My words are often bold but I am never trying to attack anyone personally... How could I when I don't know anyone here. If anything I am calling out the archetype and using examples from the comments here to support my assertions.
If users here are being immovable and completely unchangeable or not open to new information I can certainly use that as supporting evidence of my theories that I am proposing. In fact it is the best way because we have real human beings chatting in here putting their beliefs out there for everyone and I'm simply examining them and placing them within the archetype framework which the authors have done in the books we are here to discuss.