Neo-nationalism, Identitarians and the Alt-Right

[Bob Butler 54]

(10-29-2018, 10:04 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote:

Teejay Wrote:Although given the Middle East has just started it's Fourth Turning which is predicted to one hell of a battle between Islamists and Secularists. A possible final battle of the 'War on Terror' or more appropriately the 'War on Islamism' will probably occur during this Fourth Turning or in the first half of the First Turning. Islamists who are Islamic identarians could be subject to this McCarthyite purge as well.

I see it differently. The Middle East might have had its 4T in the 1960s, with the rise of nationalistic strongmen like Saddam, Qaddafi, etc. Then the 2000s, with al-Qaeda reaching peak popularity, look like a 2T since we know religion is most potent during an awakening. So the Middle East might have a 3T right now, which would explain the fragmentation of power and the existence of fallen states like Libya or Yemen.

IMHO Islamists are not equivalents of the alt-right, but of American boomer Jesus freaks or missionary "social purity movements" of the early 20th century. Purging Islamists as if they were identitarians would however be a good step, but the Western Left is chronically incapable of being opposed to anything concocted by brown people.

I have another perspective.  Both the capitalist-democratic-colonial powers and the communists treated the locals in the Middle East like trash.  They were more interested in cheap oil for their own people than improving the lot of the locals. When it came time to oppose the establishment, both the capitalists and the communists had discredited themselves, leaving them clinging extra hard to the old Islamic Agricultural Age value systems the only option.  

Alas the old systems are autocratic, leaving strongmen in charge.  Right now there is no path for improvement.  The Islamists are but one faction building on local alliances based on a religious sects, tribal identity or a political party.  It seems to matter little which, as all result in corrupt strongmen with strong self interest defeating any attempt at checks and balances.  As long as they give loyalty to these things, the idea of tolerance and workings of democracy are alien to them.  They will go in circles indefinitely.

The West might favor democracy, often thinking the transition is far easer than it turns out to be, but this has always been rough to implement.  The people of the Middle East don't trust it, and you end up with corrupt strongman government.  It seems to always take a century or three to switch over to true democratic norms.  We ourselves have our elite robber barons to take care of.  It is hard to feel the Middle Eastern people are not doing as well as expected when every other attempt to transition stumbles and fails for centuries.  Even Anglo America had to fight wars for centuries, faced many many crises, to get as far as we have.  We're not there yet.

Progress is being made.  Alas it is by the people with the most modern values giving up and migrating to western countries where democratic values have already taken hold.  Alas, they are running into prejudice from our own conservatives.  Did I mention that we aren't all the way transitioned ourselves?