Prospects of the Collapse of Civilization

[Eric the Green]

(03-05-2019, 08:17 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote:

(03-04-2019, 05:55 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Modernism as individualist, liberty-oriented and science-oriented belief in progress is still popular, and has revived among millennials.

I know, but millennial culture still contains many barbarian elements like fondness for tattoos, not to mention the generation's porn and social media problem which are unworthy of Apollonian followers of Reason. But the millennials are going in the right direction, or at least were in the 2006-14 period (somewhat optimistic part of the current 4T) before the migration crisis unleashed the demons of nationalism resulting in Brexit and rise of populist leaders like Trump, which in turn caused the rise of SJWs.

I know that about millennials, but they are a diverse group with many kinds of trends attracting them. Culture is not their strong suit, as is fairly typical of civic generations. Those trends you mention might be holdovers from the Xers, just as rap music is. But the rational trend among them is stronger than among the previous generations in our cycle. But I don't think the reaction to the migration crisis (mostly the result of the Arab Spring, powered by climate change, and outbreaks of rebellions and escapes from various tyrants worldwide) is especially a millennial movement. They tend instead to be well represented among the migrants and rebels themselves. Most millennials are against Brexit and against Trump, polls show. Some of them are SJWs though, and mostly that's a good trend, even if annoying at times.

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Quote:Such movements as the Enlightenment and rationalism are not Awakenings, but arrive in other periods in the cycle, such as the current 4T which has seen the suppression of the paranormal on wikipedia by millennial skeptics.

So what turning was the Enlightenment?

I used to be a fan of the Millennial sceptical movement, but it lost its direction. Sceptics like Sargon of Akkad now turned against feminism, started defending wrongdoers like Harvey Weinstein. Many sceptics I debated on Personality Cafe are in fact libertarians. They now represent the perversion of modernism rather than the best of it. But the sceptical movement can regain its momentum during the 1T, no longer distracted by the political polarisation.

Is this new "sceptic" movement spelled with a c?

But I agree, libertarian is a perversion of modernism. I think true modernism will make a comeback in the 2020s, as "progress" resumes (according to my prediction). But it will never again be quite as dominant as it was 150 years ago. There's too many other strains of ideas and beliefs around today, and some among them have a stronger claim on what is truly up-to-date now.

The French Enlightenment led by Voltaire and his friends was a long trend that lasted from the early 1700s 1T all the way to the 4T when the Revolution took it farther than it originally wanted to go. The English version that preceded it which featured John Locke was said to begin during the Glorious Revolution 4T, or earlier.

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Quote:The next awakening may be somewhat more Apollonian, but there is no chance that it will revive modernism. To suppose so is not to understand the nature of Awakenings, whether Apollonian or Dionysian. Every Awakening results in philosophies and religious movements that go beyond the rational and toward either or both traditional or mystical religion.

A traditionalist Christian awakening could be useful if it suppressed the post-1945 cycle's obsession with sex. Something like the social purity movement.

One historian I wrote made the good point that social freedoms once won, are never entirely lost. It won't happen. Sex is too primal and powerful to suppress. But maybe the obsession will be less dominant. Based on the cycles I see, though, I can't promise that the next Awakening will be much different from the previous one in regard to sex. It is clear that the next Awakening will fulfill and further brighten and perfect the last one rather than take any kind of opposing direction to it.