To impeach, or not to impeach

[pbrower2a]

(11-20-2019, 03:33 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(11-19-2019, 03:09 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(11-18-2019, 07:53 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(11-16-2019, 06:44 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: PBR are you naturally clueless or do you have to work at it?  Impeachment, if it fails, and it will fail, disgraces the Democrats not the President.  Or did you learn nothing from the Clintons at all?  If anything as the Impeachment drags out and more and more of it is feels and hearsay the more and more it looks like the President will win by a landslide this time round.

But feel free to continue with your delusions.

I think the house Democrats have to impeach him at this point. I'd do it if I were them. I mean, is there a chance that any of the prominent players would lose their Congressional seats over impeaching Trump for whatever reason that suits them at this point? Personally, I think they've done pretty good for themselves with the portion of the Democratic party that seems to matter to them the most these days. If there is little to no concern of losing control over their portion of the Democratic party and their portion of the country then why not go through with it and continue functioning as they've been doing and have been allowed to be able to do and  get away with for years.

There's also the minor matter of overwhelming evidence of impeachable offenses.  Trump's clearly guilty of bribery and extortion, and he's also guilty of accepting (even soliciting) emoluments.  Both are defined offenses in the US Constitution.  If there has ever been a POTUS who deserves to be impeached and convicted, it's Trump.  If Trump gets a pass on this, the flood gates are fully open for misbehavior on a colossal scale, and the next offender may not be a GOPper..

Dude, a crime must occur before one can be formally impeached or legally convicted of a committing a crime in America. Lets see, the whistle blower isn't technically a whistle blower and the so called whistle blower isn't even a witness because of concerns relating to their personal well being. Oh, what I've heard about the whistle blower and their connection to those who are in charge of impeaching Trump and connection to other interesting stuff and a partisan coup to remove Trump ain't good in general.

What you numb skulls don't seem to understand is the other half of the country has an interest in outcome of the next election and the bulk of the Republican base cares as much about following or sticking to rules as the blues these days. The table is now set and now we are going find out what the blues are truly made of over the next few years. Like I've said, the blues ain't seen nothing yet.

Dude, criminal conspiracies are themselves crimes, and a conspiracy to commit a misdemeanor is itself a felony. Deeds done solely to facilitate a crime never done because law enforcement breaks the plot or because a participant or two decides that the deed is too risky or unpromising for personal taste  or because an intended victim does something to make the crime impossible (law enforcement tipped someone off), conspiracy has still happened.So suppose that people conspire to commit a bank robbery. Someone who does it on his own, which is typically an addict seeking money for a fix (that is right -- solo bank robbers are typically addicts who need large, quick money) typically goes in, shows a gun, and gets the cash... but often forgets to have a getaway car.  The rate of arrests and convictions for bank robbers is high; bank robbery is a very stupid crime.The take is small for the time that one gets, and conviction is easy.

I'm not going to give anyone any hints on how to rob a bank... but even scouting a bank to determine the best day for a robbery usually involves a conspiracy. The plot to commit the crime is itself a crime. Arrange for a get-away and you have committed a crime.  

What Lt. Col. Vindman related was an act of extortion. Extortion is a crime even if no material goods or desirable service takes place. The President apparently demanded something that was not for the President of Ukraine to offer as a service to him to do dirty work against a likely opponent in return for denying the Ukrainian government the funds that Congress had appropriated. It is just as evil as if the President had demanded that the Ukrainian government subsidize the building of a Trump property or had sought the 'classic' bribe of cash.

Extortion includes even a failed attempt to get goods or services for which the extortionist has no right to expect. Extortion is itself monstrously corrupt. When done by an elected official or by a government employee or is done to an elected official or government employee it is a crime. It is one of the most common forms of political and economic corruption. 

We have so far had few impeachment trials in our history -- so few that we have no clear definition of what 'high crimes and misdemeanors' are. Extortion is a felony crime, and we reasonably expect that our elected officials not be criminals. 

So what follows? Does the President get the most graceful exit possible? That could be up to Mitch McConnell, as he has his own concerns -- such as remaining the Senate Majority Leader after the 2020 election. Things are complicated, and there are ways in which impeachment and removal never appears as a Senate vote that could embarrass Senate Republicans.