The Partisan Divide on Issues

[Bob Butler 54]

(01-25-2020, 07:00 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I have a hard time believing that majority of my neighbors (Democrats, Republicans and Independents) are crazy and clueless as your politicians in the House. Here's the deal, a large portion of this country doesn't vote because they don't trust the liberal Democrats anymore than they trust the Republicans these days. The liberal Democrats have been demonizing the Republicans and their policies since the 1990's while peoples jobs were streaming over seas, cheap mid level labor was streaming in from over seas, jobs were being outsourced to foreign companies over seas and cheap low level labor has been flowing in through porous borders and other ports of entry while the Democratic politicians and liberal elites have been getting richer and richer by the day. Like I said, you are digging your own graves and don't even seem to realize it or understand who is to blame these days. I'm not speaking to you, your going to stick with the party that pays or provides because that's the kind of voter you are in my opinion. I see it in your opinions, positions,  your writings and your reactions. It's obvious to me. You see most liberal posters flap their gums and don't pay pay much attention to what's coming out their mouths. We are here to establish positions, make valid points that stick  and  win arguments with pseudo intellectuals and quasi socialists.  

Now, if you want to keep the dunce cap on and continue believing or hoping that we will change and continue to ignore  that liberal politics are hurting your state   that's fine. I don't live in you're God forsaken state or a God forsake liberal  city that's turning into a banana republic.  Read this, maybe you'll figure out why liberal cities and liberal state are having so many problems these days. Minnesota still has a decent sized population of more conservative Democrats that keep the Democratic party pretty well centered here. In short, we don't have as many liberal Democrats living outside the urban center.

I am dubious not about demonizing taking place since the 1990s, but that it started then. Abolitionists and slavers were going at it while the Republican Party was being created. Adams and Jefferson were going at it way back in the Washington administration. While I haven’t looked it up, I’d guess the Yorks and the Lanchasters were saying ugly things about each other back in the War of the Roses, and demonization was old even then. Demonizing sorta goes with politics. A lot of folk do negative propaganda. People demonize. You of all people should know that.

I won’t deny it was going on in the 1990s, only that it went in one particular direction only.

The question is what one tries to do about it. I could point out that the Republicans have always been the party of the elites, though the Democrats were taking money from the elites too about the same time the jobs were being sent overseas. You could try to repeal Citizens United, but that is a Democratic initiative. You could try to emphasize taking smaller donations from the people rather than big donations from the elites, but that is more a Democratic initiative. I wouldn’t be opposed to working with the conservatives to promote campaign finance reform, to fight the predominance of elite influence, to make the politicians work for the people again instead of the elite, but what conservative programs could I support?

Immigration is one of the few issues where following the money trail does not yield the obvious result. You would think the Republicans would be on the side of encouraging it, to see cheap labor. You would think the Democratic support for the People earning a good wage that would put them against it. But instead, it seems to run the other way around. The Democrats are supporting minorities and family. The Republicans are splitting families and trying to ignore humanitarian policies trying to fight drug war. Tis a bit odd. I can agree jobs shouldn’t be shipped overseas, that the trade policies of the late 20th century were bad for the US working people (as opposed to the corporations and the elites). I am just not sure the current way the Republicans are fighting immigration is right.

Minnesota? Well, it does explain partially your inclination to support violence. The twin cities do have a hyped up hood, and were at the beginning of the Black Lives Matter movement. Massachusetts had its share of desegregation issues once upon a time, so I shall spare you the racism based thing. Still, as a more rural Massachusetts voter, it seems the propensity towards violence is hardly typical.

Turning into a banana republic? Which party is backing Trump, trying to get rid of the traditional Enlightenment / American ideals of no man being above the law, a lack of foreign influence, a coequal balance of power, and free and fair multi party elections? That particular piece of demonization could be turned around easy enough. (Oh. I forgot. You are supposedly remaining willfully ignorant of what Trump is doing.)

But the big thing is the confluence of fighting the government’s attempt to help the poor with racism. Since the Reagan administration there has been a conservative push against helping the poor, against domestic spending, towards small government, towards cutting taxes. This has had an element of racism, has through the conservative era. If you want to hurt minorities, you hurt the poor, which accidentally made America not so great. Yes, the conservative policies of the conservative era ended America’s greatness, the feeling that America could and should do anything. The jobs left, and the generations that came of age in the conservative era were introduced to poverty. This was primarily the result of conservative striving. How do you look to fight it from the conservative side? What conservative programs should I support to reverse the trend?

Thus your post becomes an incoherent ramble, a poor attempt at demonization. I could be all in favor of the liberals borrowing a little common sense from the middle of the country. I would be pleased to support a working together if the racist, violent and tribal thinking elements could be stripped off.

That is virtually impossible. What conservative programs or policies could be supported?