03-15-2020, 08:19 PM
(03-15-2020, 07:33 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:(03-15-2020, 02:29 PM)TheNomad Wrote: Heroes can only do what they are supposed to do when you leave.
They are nice kids, and the niece grew into a nice adult, but not self organizing. They were not feral children.
The S&H system includes how childhood experiences shape generations as adults. Todays 'heros' did not have the same childhood experience as happened in the Industrial Age. They are different from those that came before. Specifically, they cannot organize their way out of a paper bag. They will sit like a lump and wait for an adult to tell them what to do.
My shutting up will not turn the Industrial Age children into clones of the Industrial Age children. S&H built their theory around the Industrial Age, and did not check it against what was really happening. The S&H theory states that Hero generations will be a certain way, and none of their slavish devotees are checking to see if the Hero lifestyle was the same in childhood resulting in the same sort of result. It is as I said in the a recent post, if the Age changes, what you thought you learned in the prior Age has to be double checked, verified. If your expectations are not being met, what are the new expectations, and why have they changed?
In this case, the invention of labor saving appliances in the home allowed the parent to do more parenting. Cars became far more common, allowing non neighborhood interactions. The consequence was a very different childhood, and a very different group of adults.
I see nothing to make me believe the so called Heroes will change when another generation of adults is no longer there to provide coaching and leadership. The important thing is that they do not do it themselves. They sit like lumps when no one tells them what to do and how to do it.
Now is a very small micro-example of how I can provide a very helpful lesson to you.
I think you are fundamentally challenging what Strauss and Howe are conveying about the archetypes. Such as, a "forest-for-the-trees" thing? I'll show you EXACTLY how you are incorrect, but this is not about being correct or incorrect, or assignment of blame. I think all of this should be about progressing.
You mention here above about how cars changed a real dynamic in how ppl would evolve into their archetype. At least, I think that is what you said. And how, "non-neighborhood interactions" were then possible where before, they were not. And you are speaking specifically about the Industrial-Age children, and why those Heroes would be much different than the Heroes coming on the scene right now. In fact, all of this can be tied directly even to how you say the current Heroes cannot organize.
The fact that the current Hero was raised in a swing AWAY from personal freedom kept them very local. It actually kept them inside and attached to vehicles of "shared interaction" and "shared pop culture" in the form of
TV
then the Internet
then online gaming
then smartphones
then social media
ETC
What you don't get, the current Millennials you might call them lazy or disorganized due to your own personal experiences (*to be addressed in footnote) but they live in a culture where to be outside of the group is unheard of. The current Hero is demanding allegience from their peers in just about every way from cultural association to political correctness to ideological temperament. You can say here in this forum they "can't organize their way out of a paper bag" but they know nothing BUT organization.
The ARCHETYPE of the hero (regardless of their "out-of-neighborhood interactions") is they are the opposite of free-spirit and radical thinking. It does not matter if this is the 5th Saeculum or the 12th. The archetype (not the incarnation of it) is what needs to be assessed.
(*) Strauss & Howe in plain words (I think the exact words even) that Nomad takes the blame for being simply alive in youth, for dragging on society in coming of age, for their own failure when there are no jobs in midlife and then finally, for being hangers-on in old age. It strongly sounds like you may be confusing the Nomad with the Hero. The way you have said they are lazy and chronicled how they "cant organize out of a paper bag" you don't seem to have high opinion of these ppl you say are Hero. But based on what I just said, I think your views of "them" may actually be your internal view of what you think is Hero when is actually Nomad. Oh, and saying they don't vote. That's definitely a Nomad trait, not a Hero. You said that was not "reality" but I'm giving you a way out here. I am not saying you are wrong, only you may be slightly confused in kind of what your gaze is looking at.