What Will Come of This 4T?

[Eric the Green]

(04-20-2020, 09:45 AM)Isoko Wrote: Eric,

I have seen you mention this several times, that the "progressive" side always wins. However I have to disagree with you on this for two reasons.

1) The only historical periods where the progressives have actually "won" has predominately been in Anglo countries, particularly the United States. In the case of let's say Russia for examples, the progressive side never wins and instead it is always the conservative side.

Take the Russian Revolution. The early Bolsheviks actually were the first government to permit gay sex. No other European country would touch the prospect. What happened? A man called Stalin took over, thought it was too bad for healthy family relations and made it illegal again.

Then we had Khrushchev who was a liberal reformer and then Brezhnev who started to scale back the reforms. Then we had Yeltsin who allowed everything to pretty much happen and then Putin who has followed in the footsteps of Stalin and Brezhnev.

This seems to be a repeat cycle in Russian history. There is a brief period of liberalism then the door is shut and it is back to conservatism again. Russia is just one example of this case on why the progressives do not always win. 

2) There is nothing else left to progress too. Everything has already been done that is, essentially, progressive. If you go any further down the liberal tree, you are going into some pretty vile territory. Therefore, the pendulum for the next few awakenings is probably going to swing more to the right. It's about the balance and you cannot keep progressing when there is nothing else left to progress too, otherwise you are going to end up in a very bad Sodom and Gomorrah situation.

As for the Populists, I agree when it comes to the Anglo countries. They are pretty comfortable where they are right now and there is no desire for major changes with I think Brexit and Trump being the big push.

However Europe is different. Europe is going to have right wing Populists like Le Pen, Salvini and Wilders getting into power. Another major economic meltdown there, another refugee crisis and it is pretty much guaranteed. When they get into power, well it'll be closed borders, mass deportations, etc. 

You will have protests and riots from the lefties but the people will support it. It won't be like the Nazis or anything but I think that it is pretty much inevitable for Europe. Europe always has these spikes of craziness every century as is the nature of the continent.

Overall Europe will go the right and that is pretty much inevitable.

I agree the progressive side may not always win in the non-anglo saeculum. But it often does. Not in Russia, as you point out; a very conservative country that rarely sees any progress that sticks. The Awakening does not end up shaping the crisis, as it does in the anglo saeculum. It's just cracked down on then.

Populists are never right wing. Populism means power to the people, not power to the prejudiced.

I couldn't disagree more with your #2, of course. We just barely opened up the Awakening when it was squashed and unfairly discredited. More Awakening along the same line as the sixties would be wonderful. It was peace and love, care for the Earth, respect the rights of all people, awakening to spiritual and sensory awareness. We need much more of this; the USA is too commercial and materialist. We need a renaissance. We need to come alive. We have the potential, because so much from the past and from the world is available to us at our fingertips to inspire us, but commercialism ties us down and keeps us focused on making money. The USA needs much-more powerful Awakenings. Most countries and peoples past and present are much more awake all through their saecula.

There is so much further to go politically and economically too. After 40 years of regression in the USA, it is in the most need of further progress of any nation. Health care for all has been put off for a century! It's way past time. And climate change is a real threat that means we need massive shifts in the energy we produce. Only the uninformed deny this. After 40 years of Reaganomics, wages for many are far too low and a few people are far too rich and too influential. Our democracy is totally ineffective now, and has been for 40 years, because it is bought and paid for and dominated by massively-deluded fools of the red trumpist tribe. We only didn't get Sanders because boomers were afraid of the power of the right-wing, and they voted for Biden because they thought he could beat Trump more easily. OK, Boomer. But we still need to move left, and you know it! And the exit polls proved that you know it.

Europe's flirtation with right wing nationalism is over, and with brexit severe damage was done by it to the UK. It may never recover. Also, Eastern Europe has fallen back to its earlier Soviet-era condition. This right-wing spasm was, as I pointed out, solely due to excess migration because of the dire situation in Syria caused by horrific genocide imposed by Assad, and also due to war and famine troubles in Africa. Much more real populism will be needed in Europe, and the left will therefore revive, because although the arc of history is long, it bends toward justice. The left is always the direction of history, without exception. Fallbacks into rightwing prejudice just reinforces peoples awareness that this is true, as the Nazis and what has followed them proved. The left IS justice, and IS what is best for all the people, not just for the wealthy few, the better race or the most hoodwinked.