The Partisan Divide on Issues

[pbrower2a]

(05-18-2020, 06:13 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(05-18-2020, 05:42 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(05-17-2020, 08:28 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Good thing you're not in charge of words then.  

I’ve generally been of the Republican / conservative / red against Democrat / progressive / blue labeling school.  No reason to change now.  If they call themselves conservative, that’s good enough for me.  If you have suddenly become a fan of the leader of that faction, you are stuck with the label.

But I sympathize with the dictionary definition of the word being at odds with their actual policies.  The problem with being the party of the elites is that there are not enough elites to win an election.  You have to grab onto enough populist issues to actually win.  Thus you get a weird connections.  In the late Gilded Age they were isolationists, but by Bush 43’s time they were Neo Cons pushing Neo Colonialism.  In Lincoln’s time they were pushing the northern Robber Baron perspective and black rights.  By Nixon’s and Reagan’s time it was the Southern Strategy.  In short, they have flip flopped so many times over the years that their approach of winning at all costs has not left them with much in the way of a one word comprehensive strategy.

But the key is that you are an owner.  You know who butters your bread.  You have always favored the elites over the people.  That puts you on the red side, and the red side.  It is all natural for one who values green paper more than grandma.

Then you have a problem because the same is true of the Democratic Party as well.  They have flipped and twisted and turned so many times that it makes the head spin.  And just like the GOP they have always held the interests of the ruling elite be they Slave holders or the Ku Kluxists or what have you.  Yes, the Democrats sometimes have those who are agents of change in their party leadership.  Same is true of GOP as well.  They typically drag the rest of their coalition kicking and screaming into a new era.  Or have you forgotten about your Avatar's Cousin?

Not so long ago the Democratic Party in the North was heavily the Party of blue-collar, especially unionized, workers. Such is not an elitist party, or it is at the least a party with a non-elite faction. In recent years the Republican Party has made demagogic appeals to 'racial' concerns, especially in the South, and such may have caused a drift of voters with some of the usual demographics of Republican voters up to the Reagan era into the Democratic Party. The "Eisenhower" and "Rockefeller" Republicans never were compatible with racist demagogues... too unruly, too dangerous, and too offensive.

Surely you have seen my overlay of Eisenhower and Obama elections, right? In 2012 Obama got 332 electoral votes, which isn't a squeaker, but except for one state and one district not voting in the 1950's, Obama did not win a state that Ike did not win twice.  This is a better overlay than what Obama did against the biggest landslides of the last century. Obama did win DC (which neither Reagan nor Nixon ever won), Vermont and Maine (which FDR did not win in a 46-state landslide), Minnesota (Reagan's one state loss in 1984), and Massachusetts (Nixon's only state loss in 1972).    

Quote:If you doubt my reasoning behind my mistrust of the Democrats then perhaps you really really really need to watch Dinesh D'Souza's films on the subject.

Just another sophisticated crackpot.  Yawn!

Quote:  Otherwise I'm not particularly concerned with defending the Republican Party because to me it is a vehicle to an end and not an end in and of itself.  After all, there is much whining from the Reddest of the Reds that "Donald Trump isn't a 'true conservative'".  And they are right.  He isn't.  He's a New York City Business Democrat who was disaffected by the "Progressive" identity politics crowd that is now in charge of that Party.  His policies are very much that of a Business Democrat.  In fact I have already told my mother, much to her chagrin--which is mostly why I used it, that I fully supported the Democratic Nominee Donald J. Trump. Mind you I pretty much consider the President to be running unopposed at this point, if you actually listen to Biden and ignore the fact that he's in the other party and supposedly running for president he sounds like a senile old man. 

 
In a way you are right about Trump not being a conservative of the small-government school that demands that the government do nothing except to facilitate business, educate kids for 12 years, enforce the law, and defend the country. He is instead a right-wing Big Government type who sees government as a way of rewarding grafters who support his cause, enforcing the will of monopolists, and punishing opponents. That is fascism which genuine conservatives who prefer free markets to lucrative graft rightly abhor. 

So maybe we end up reducing the role of government to defense, mass (if not elite) education, facilitation of commerce, response to disasters, and welfare. Such will imply a compromise, likely 1T, between liberals and free-market types. F--- the grafters!

Quote: As for valuing dollars over grandma.  Both of my grandmothers are dead.  And as such other people's grandmothers are only of interest to me if they are giving me money.  However, if granny is under such threat from the Carona then granny perhaps should not go out licking the subway. Consider me to be cruel or whatever, but I expect those with white hair to act with at least some degree of wisdom (or maybe just common sense) and those who can't or won't do that then they would better serve humanity by shucking off their mortal coil. That being said since this disease mostly kills the immune compromised and the elderly I think we should be looking at it as a blessing rather than a curse. 

 
"Granny" shouldn't be using the subway, as the subway has been one of the most effective spreaders of COVID-19. Likewise city buses, trains, an non-private aircraft. As for someone who used to have the sort of hair shading that women would spend huge amounts to achieve without trying -- forty years ago -- I wear a mask when going to stores and take-out windows. I have done little traveling after finding that there are places to go but nothing to do when one gets there. 

I'd be wary of saying that elderly people could do the world much good by shucking off "the mortal coil". Elder wisdom has some value.  Now at risk are people who defy stay-at-home orders to attend boisterous "Open America" protests.  

Quote:As for your labeling:  I don't mind Red.  Or even Republican (I am registered as a Republican due to Florida's Primary Election Laws).  I am not however a conservative.  I simply don't fit the definition the dictionary lays out and the GOP is not a conservative party just like the Democrats are not a liberal/progressive one; the structure of the American Party System simply doesn't lead to clear divisions like Europe has, or even fuzzy edges like Canada.

The GOP has taken long strides toward fascism with Donald Trump as the demagogic vehicle.