06-10-2020, 05:48 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2020, 05:49 PM by Bob Butler 54.)
For the most part I could go along with your recent post. There is one bit, however, that I would contest.
Humans do have instincts towards us and them. Among their own, they will be moderately nice. If they convince themselves that you are in another group, you get what Xenakis calls xenophobia. People can easily motivate themselves to treat other group horribly. It is sometimes hard to argue against it, as human history is full of it.
I see this in primarily materialistic terms. At the cusp of the Agricultural and Industrial ages, both agricultural processes and weapon technology changed. Society needed fewer farmers and more soldiers. Muskets were easier to train with than the muscle powered weapons that preceded them. Eventually, the soldiers stood around fondling their muskets and claimed to their lord that they had a right to own and carry these things. The lords looked at the soldiers, the riffles, particularly the muzzles, and agreed. Encouraged, the soldiers asked for the rights of conscience.
That began the long slow climb in democracy, human rights and equality. Look ma. No spiritual influence required. It goes on to this day. The ‘stay as you are’ folk divide the world into people like them and people not like them, and stick it to the other as they can. The progress people say all men are created equal under law, and try to make it so for ever larger groups.
But if we differ on the forces acting on the people, we agree that movement towards progress should occur.
(06-10-2020, 04:12 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I tend to think that racist and group-exclusivity power-plays are not inherent in human nature, and that there is no material or physical basis for a view that they are. It is also a spiritual belief. I disagree. The naked ape is a nice guy. I see that spiral and planetary dynamics shows a progression through millennia of human history toward loyalty and connection to ever-larger groups.
Humans do have instincts towards us and them. Among their own, they will be moderately nice. If they convince themselves that you are in another group, you get what Xenakis calls xenophobia. People can easily motivate themselves to treat other group horribly. It is sometimes hard to argue against it, as human history is full of it.
I see this in primarily materialistic terms. At the cusp of the Agricultural and Industrial ages, both agricultural processes and weapon technology changed. Society needed fewer farmers and more soldiers. Muskets were easier to train with than the muscle powered weapons that preceded them. Eventually, the soldiers stood around fondling their muskets and claimed to their lord that they had a right to own and carry these things. The lords looked at the soldiers, the riffles, particularly the muzzles, and agreed. Encouraged, the soldiers asked for the rights of conscience.
That began the long slow climb in democracy, human rights and equality. Look ma. No spiritual influence required. It goes on to this day. The ‘stay as you are’ folk divide the world into people like them and people not like them, and stick it to the other as they can. The progress people say all men are created equal under law, and try to make it so for ever larger groups.
But if we differ on the forces acting on the people, we agree that movement towards progress should occur.
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.