The Partisan Divide on Issues

[pbrower2a]

(06-15-2020, 08:11 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(06-15-2020, 05:03 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(06-15-2020, 04:44 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(06-15-2020, 04:21 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(06-15-2020, 12:01 PM)David Horn Wrote: Ah, no -- not really.  The obvious examples are Australia, with a very conservative government, and New Zealand, run by Socialists.  Both brought the virus to near zero and are keeping it there.  Both countries are more-or-less open, in the US meaning of the term.  So again here, the fault lies with the dickhead in the White House ... full stop.

Run by social democratics and are centre left to be exact. (New Zealand)

Here in the USA, anything left of center is considered socialist, at least by the Trumpist crowd.  Actually, by some mainstream conservatives too.

As said it is CENTRE left. So not completely left of centre. Any person regardless of political affiliation who would lump them as one group (socialist) is an idiot. There are always variations.

In America, we have the Left and the American Left. The American Left are a lot like us. They believe in the American Constitution, they value their American rights as much as we do, they value the America flag like we do, they value American tradition and they also believe in the American rule of law as well. The Left isn't paying attention as usual because the Left believes that we are to stupid to distinguish the difference between those on the American Left and them. I was pretty much educated by the American Left. I've been tangling with the Left for many years. Eric and Dave are on the Left. PB and Bob are some where in between the Left and American Left. Which isn't a good place be when the American Left see's the writing on the wall begins to move to the the American side.

It is odd that I thought myself rather cosmopolitan for recognizing the legitimacy of other cultures. If I had a Japanese wife then our abode would likely have multiple bonsai trees and plentiful Japanese-style art prints. If I had an Italian wife I would probably listen to more Italian opera and fewer German and Austrian symphonies or sting quartets. OK, "American" does not define one's culture. Even in music, country music and rhythm-and-blues could hardly be more different, yet both are undeniably American -- American enough to be a taste that one acquires with difficulty if one is a Finn. 

I consider the American political heritage a good basis for any needful reform of society. We do not throw the wisdom of the Founding Fathers out just because we want a more just world. Those Founding Fathers allowed some flexibility in the system, although they did get slavery and male chauvinism wrong. Abolition of slavery was still a pipe dream in 1776 and 1787, and gender equity was outside of the realm of practical thought at that time. Then again I am not going to fault the Founding Fathers for failing to anticipate technology that would radically change their world. The Founding Fathers were extremely rigid on one thing: that despotism and dictatorship were out of the question then. Most of us concur with that. Dictatorship and despotism have been un-American since the latter part of the 18th century. But they have been "un-Swiss" and "un-Dutch" since 1815, "un-British" since the 1840's... and "un-Italian" and "un-Japanese" since 1945. Maybe a Napoleon might force institutional changes that pass the test of time only for him to do something stupid to Russia... 

In three and a half years, Donald Trump has done much that many of us consider un-American not so much because it is right-wing but instead because it is done with a despotic manner. 

I admit to being un-American to the extent that I believe in certain things that transcend national identity. Just look at my CD collection; it would be more at home in Tara's Slovakia than here. (Maybe it comes from being raised around so many Polish-Americans that my taste in folk music has a Slavic bias even if I am not a Slav). But that is a triviality. I never did get into rhythm-and-blues, and country music is too intellectually-hollow for my taste. For something less trivial... if anything ever happened to American democracy I might want out. Dictatorships and despotic cliques have a tendency to turn up the nationalism while debasing life in every other way. 

I consider the adulation that Donald Trump gets un-American. We have no heritage of his style of government in America. The only Americans who can know that style of government are those who have lived where freedom either does not exist (let us say Cuba) or did not exist at the time (the Soviet bloc and many fascist regimes). 

I try to harmonize my liberalism with the American political heritage. Technological, social, and cultural change are inevitable until we achieve perfection... OK, perfection does not exist in real life.