The Partisan Divide on Issues

[pbrower2a]

(06-16-2020, 07:44 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(06-15-2020, 09:43 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The movement is not from the new values to the old.  The Republican alliance is between the racists, the elites, and those small government hedonists who expect to stay in the unravelling state forever.  If you step back to Bush 43’s war, there was the Neo Con idea of using force to institute neocolonialism, which got stepped on by insurrection and led to a conclusion that putting boots on the ground was a bad idea.

It looks like the crisis heart issues we are seeing right now are going to diminish or destroy the conservative thinking entirely, as usual in the last several crises.  The usual high dislike of the old values ought to finish the job.  Classic is sort of in denial.

But I sympathize with one culture’s opinion of what is important to another culture is often pretty simplistic.  It is not surprising that another culture will be in another place, and concerned with different issues.

As long as we have liberal Democrats who are reliant upon racism and need to use racism as a political tool  or a political crutch, we'll  always have racism that exists.

We liberal Democrats depend less upon ethnic identity than your side does for dividing America into hostile, exclusive camps. We are to no small part a coalition of people who cooperate across ethnic lines with the objective of a better world. 

Quote:I mean, wasn't it Biden who told a black person that they weren't black if they wouldn't support him.

It is not mainstream behavior among blacks to support an overt white racist like Donald Trump. As a person with a handicap I recognize what Donald Trump has done as a campaigner and as President. With Trump, dignity is a privilege and not a right. One can never predict what people will next feel his rage.

As someone with a handicap, to wit a neurological disorder that does not compromise my ethical values or learning ability, I am a minority even if I do not look like one. Consider this: a literal cripple led this country through one of its most dangerous times and did so quite well.    

Quote:So, with that said, we don't have a problem with all blacks. We have a problem with your blacks and other minorities so to speak and a problem with the whites as well. I'm sorry but we can't help idiots who believe everything that comes out of mouth of Leftists or is preached by those on CNN or MSNBC.

I can assure you that what comes out of the mouth of Rachel Maddow has little 'idiot appeal'. You may dislike her style, but she makes her case very well... better than just about any news analyst who takes the role seriously. The most effective analysis comes from the comedy shows. Donald Trump is so incompetent that he is almost a comic villain that one can treat much like "Adenoid Hynkel" in Charlie Chaplin's The Great Dictator. 

Quote:I don't know if you'll live to experience the results/outcome like AOC and her gang.

She will mellow some as she develops a constituency to which she must deliver tangible benefits or she will go down to defeat at some point. She is far to the left of the mainstream of the Democratic Party. The problem with your Republican Party is that it has increasingly endorsed the most extreme positions within it. 
  

Quote:So, you think we're reaching the head of the crisis that we've  been experiencing right now. Hmmm....I don't view it that way at all. I think we've got a ways to go before we reach the head and settle things. We've just seen the crash of 1929 a few months ago.

No, we saw that crash about 12 years ago. (By the way... the real crashes were in 1930 and 2008. 1929 and 2007 were closer parallels as the end of speculative booms at the end of 3T  that ended with panics that predictably end bubble economies. What was different this time as opposed to the three-year meltdown that began in 1929 was that the one that began in 2007 lasted a year and a half before the political system backed the financial system and stopped the bleeding. The bank runs of the latter part of 1931 and throughout 1932 made the Great Depression as severe as it was, and any semblance of recovery was possible only when FDR backed the banks.

Another difference was political: the great three-year meltdown of the American economy discredited economic elites who had economic values out of the Gilded Age, basically that no human suffering could ever be excessive if such suffering allowed the power, indulgence, and gain of elites. (Get it? P. I. G. ... may I suggest George Orwell's Animal Farm as an allegory that conflates porcine behavior to Humanity at its most abusive and exploitative despite the trappings of idealism). The recovery starting in early 2009 allowed those elites to buy the political process... and here we are. The fool that we now have as President bungled the response to COVID-19, and we now have a sudden and severe recession.    

Quote:I believe we be 4T and the only people wanting to go backwards are people like you. We need to give the Left more time dig itself a deeper and give Americans more time to arm themselves and help induce some more riots and scare what's left of the do nothing, we can't do that Republicans out of office.

The Hard Right of course prefers an economic order in which people other than the economic elites fear hunger as a consequence for failing to suffer for their power, indulgence, and gain. We have economic elites little more moral than feudal magnates and slave-owning planters in their economic morality... people who believe that someone who lives in their midst owes everything to them and deserves to die horribly upon any show of rebellion, whether quickly and brutally in an execution or by slow starvation for failure to work up to some norm. The generational cycle allows things to go only so far here... and it is turning away from an ethos of extreme inequality with unreason as its support to something more equitable and rational. Live with that. Most people now seem to believe that a more rational and just order is worth the effort -- and higher taxes.

Quote: I mean, if you can't trust them, can't count on them and they lack spine, why keep them. What do you think of the new Mitt, the new Mitt has regressed and returned to the old Democratic Mitt?

Mitt Romney saw what a rogue Donald Trump is, and at that he is in line with the vast majority of Democrats. If he saw Obama as too far Left, he saw Donald Trump as too far rogue. Irresponsible behavior by political leaders does harm wherever it is on the political spectrum.

Count on this: I expect a revival of political conservatism in America in about twenty years. But that conservatism will act far more like Obama than like Trump. Obama is about as conservative in style as one gets. In one respect, Obama is one of the least socialist of American Presidents: he did more to undo socialism in America than any prior President in selling off government assets acquired through "receivership socialism".