The Partisan Divide on Issues

[pbrower2a]

(07-17-2020, 08:21 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(07-17-2020, 02:24 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Yes, there may be a few cops like that in the country. I don't think there are enough of them to attack, intimidate, condemn and punish all of them or treat them all like shit these days. The Boogaloo Bois ain't shit compared to Antifa and Black Live Matter and the party who is now in bed with both of them. Bob if you push me or punch or wave a stick or a bottle or anything that could be a weapon, I'm going to down and if the liberal Democrats ( the ones perpetuating and enabling by looking the other way or doing nothing) don't like it or think its wrong then that's to bad. PS. I thought you said (told Dave) the Boogaloo Bois were communist believers. As far as you and the others, you can disagree, deny affiliation, reject and even try to refuse to support it but if you can't then you're pretty fucked and are going to have to accept whether you like it or not at that point. As I mentioned, I'll help feed you and the other liberals here and others else where to the liberal mobs on a silver plate.

I am more or less in line with Tea Party these days. It's funny, the Minneapolis city counsel passed a bill that would make policing the hood and other sketchy areas damn near  impossible and limited what the police can do in neighborhoods outside those areas then submitted and approved a formal request for private security for themselves at the tax payers expense. That's fucked up in my opinion but probably makes sense or doesn't matter  to some idiot or clueless person who still supports the liberal status quo. One other thing, I don't think racism was a factor in the death of George Floyd. In other words, I don't think the cop who killed Floyd was a racist as you say. If anything, class was more of a factor than race.

Not all bad cops of are the racist variety.  There is a local alliance of bad cops, drug pushers, sex industry professionals and lawyers who do each other favors regularly.  If you are not part of their personal schemes, the bad cops can do a reasonable imitation of a good cop.  If not, faked 911 calls result in no warrant searches, traffic stops take place regularly for no reason, in this case the custody of a grandchild was stolen and health insurance and social security was withheld, restored, withheld… etc…

There are corrupt, brutal, and incompetent cops. We need to drum them out... but more importantly we need to find ways in which to ensure that we not get those sorts of cops. Police academies are run somewhat like military academies (except without the semblance of general education that is assumed for someone selected for training in a police academy).  Character obviously matters greatly, but most people know how to answer questions about character if they are applying for a job that has any semblance of professionalism. Maybe retail stores end up with unsophisticated people who can get the answers wrong about behavior and attitudes consistent with embezzlement or 'inventory shrinkage'... one such question is about whether people are generally honest... and someone who comes from a culture in which 'doesn't everyone steal?' is a common statement is one person that you do not want to employ.

Police must be paid well enough that they don't end up on the informal payroll of the well-heeled Bad Guys. Note also that good pay can make police work attractive to people who see it more lucrative than being a  clerk, bartender, or laborer despite a college degree. The bad cop might look the other way  about drugs or prostitution but be an eager-beaver in enforcing traffic laws (strengthening your argument on a bad cop looking like a good cop even in the level of performance.  
 

Quote:This seems to make too much sense to exist only locally.  Everyone can easily provide services others want.

We need more social workers. We need to restore some moral education in schools (basically it is wrong to hurt people, be promiscuous, deal drugs, be involved in loan sharking or crooked gambling)... ideally a good society would reward people adequately for jobs well done, but our current economic order treats working people badly ... until the owners and bosses are scared or the method starts to fail (like workers getting sick or injured in unusual numbers). A hint based upon the reality of COVID-19: we have been doing much of our industrial production, especially in food processing -- and don't fool yourself -- such a business as a dairy or a slaughterhouse really is for all practical purposes a factory, and usually a sweatshop on the cheap. We may be unable to do that. How do we know that there isn't a COVID-23 in the wings ready to strike with incompetent and inattentive leadership at the Top?

Maybe we will even see a rebirth of religion as a means of creating community and establishing collective guidelines on moral conduct.      

Quote:One problem with this is that cops are more loyal to the other cops than to the law or the community they are supposed to serve.  Even the supposedly good cops find life easier if they keep their mouths shut.  While I am more familiar through personal experience with the vice flavored bad cop than the racist flavor, the idea that all cops are legally responsible for all crimes committed within their view is overdue.  The loyalty to the law and the community has got to outweigh the loyalty to their fellow officers.

That is one strength of the police force -- it is not a collection of lone wolves unable to cooperate. The survival of any institution depends upon the delicate balance between the individual and the collective. Rugged individualism is limited in its potential, but rigid collectivism can commit people to catastrophe especially if the means to catastrophe have efficient means for its achievement.

Quote: Of course (Classic X'er) , you think murder is OK so long as it is not yourself, your family, your friends, or other of your skin color.  You would look the other way too.  No, you do not represent law and order.  You promote violence and treating people of color horribly.

When law enforcement of the official kind disappears due to social breakdown, lynch 'law' emerges as a stopgap. Lynch law is infamously unjust and ineffective at anything other than punishment.

Classic X'er seems like the sort who thinks that he isn't bigoted because he watched the Cosby Show (OK, it isn't so funny once we found out what Bill Cosby is off the stage) or perhaps because he patronized an African-American woman as a prostitute. Or maybe he is like the German who knew one good Jew before 1933... with black people. 

Quote:Me, I think it entirely proper to prosecute and make all officers responsible for aiding and abetting all crimes, including those of other officers.

With great rewards come great responsibilities... but even at low levels in our economic hierarchy we all have the responsibility to be good to each other.

I hate to see this, but I can imagine Classic X'er as the sort of person that I would not want to meet if I were in Rwanda or Yugoslavia at certain times in the recent past if he saw me as the Enemy.