The Partisan Divide on Issues

[pbrower2a]

(07-17-2020, 06:59 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(07-15-2020, 10:17 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(07-15-2020, 02:31 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Well, the blue side is busy implementing new values and clinging to old values right now while half the country ( the half of the country that's already set on keeping the old values) is watching and wondering how its going to play out right now. As I recall, the Republican party ended slavery and Jim Crow and it was the Democratic party that fought to keep them both alive.

Honoring the S&H theory, I don’t have to wonder about how it is going to turn out.  The new values have prevailed during the heart of the crisis, and the old rejected with emphasis.  Judging by how the virus behaves and the people have supported equality against the violent racist cops, there is nothing I see that suggest it will be different this time.

Again, before the awakening both parties had conservative and progressive wings, but identified with the old Civil War alignments.  After LBJ and Nixon, that shifted, with the Democrats going more fully progressive and the Republicans picking up the racist element.  The parties are not what they were at the time of Lincoln.  If you don’t know your history, you come up with all sorts of weird ideas.

Did the new values prevail over the old values during The Great Depression or World War II? Nope, the parties aren't the same as they were at the time of Lincoln. The Whigs (the party that represented the status quo at the time) were politically annihilated and absorbed by the dominant parties. I think Nixon courted the growing population of non union working class voters associated with the new South myself. You can stick with your Northeastern  liberal  views but I doubt its going to help you at this point.

My favorite comparison of elections. Obama never did well in the High Plains or Mormon Country, but otherwise his electoral wins are closer to those of Eisenhower (a very good President, by the way) in many ways similar to Obama in temperament and ability. That the political parties, at least in electing a President, were about opposite for Ike and Obama itself suggests uncanny similarities despite huge differences in curricula vitae. Most obviously (from the generational standpoint) they are from Reactive generations. Both ran scandal-free administrations, and both are chilly rationalists. Both did well among well-educated voters, but not so well where there are large numbers of under-educated white voters. 

Except perhaps for demography (migration, growth of minority groups), the cultures -- including state cultures -- rarely change that much even over sixty years. Technology can change, but that seems one of the most recessive realities of politics. Economic change is more likely to intensify feelings than to change them. Attitudes toward formal education don't change. Partisan coalitions are more likely to change. 

Quote:The definitive moderate Republican may have been Dwight Eisenhower, and I have heard plenty of Democrats praise the Eisenhower Presidency. He went along with Supreme Court rulings that outlawed segregationist practices, stayed clear of the McCarthy bandwagon, and let McCarthy implode.


 
gray -- did not vote in 1952 or 1956
white -- Eisenhower twice, Obama twice
deep blue -- Republican all four elections
light blue -- Republican all but 2012 (I assume that greater Omaha went for Ike twice)
light green -- Eisenhower once, Stevenson once, Obama never
dark green -- Stevenson twice, Obama never
pink -- Stevenson twice, Obama once 

No state voted Democratic all four times, so no state is in deep red. 

So Eisenhower was decidedly conservative on the economic issues of the time and Obama is relatively liberal. I can say this: I would be more comfortable with a winning coalition that elects Eisenhower or Obama than about any other coalition. Maybe it is the combination of chilly rationalism, acceptance of expertise of people with more specific knowledge on a particular concern of public policy,  rejection of populism, respect for protocol and legal precedent, and overall integrity. 

If I had to choose between a liberal version of Trump and a conservative version of Obama, then I would go for the conservative version of Obama... any day. Partisan affiliation is never enough, and it is no cover for incompetence, corruption, or extremism.