The Partisan Divide on Issues

[pbrower2a]

(08-17-2020, 02:38 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-17-2020, 01:14 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-17-2020, 12:52 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Bob, the vast majority (98-99%) are going to survive the COVID19 crisis. It's silly at this point and it's going to be quite costly for the Democratic states that are still playing games with peoples lives and causing more harm than good at this point. The Democratic consensus seems to be buckle down, hurt Trump as much as they can and force their people to put their lives on hold and wait for a cure. Well, that's fine for Democratic controlled areas but that's not going to fly with the Republican run areas.

What happens is that in order to prevent the hospitals from collapsing, even the happy talk governors have to give in to the people and isolate.  Happy talk kills a bunch of people keeps the economy shut down for an extended period.

(08-17-2020, 12:52 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I see violence on your side. I see racism on your side today. I see elitism on your side today. I see narcissism on your side and way more lying on your side today. Unlike you, I do watch some of your channels. The Republicans aren't saints but they're not nearly as bad or out of touch with reality. I think its pretty clear that red and blue values no longer match which isn't good for countries because values have to match or countries split apart.

Or a 4T comes along and the old values go kaput.  I can point out several cases of the old values collapsing in recent S&H crisis.  

It is harder to find countries splitting apart.  Germany was split by external force.  The Middle East was partitioned by the West in the colonial era, and are reverting to their old tribal or religious borders.  Can you give me an example of a nation with distinctly different values splitting?  

Try Great Britain.  They may be splitting apart, but it is along regional boundaries that reflect separate kingdoms once upon a time and still have governments which hold a trace of independence.   I suppose we have states which fragments it even more, but we seem to change to the new values and move on rather than let the old values fester.

Bob, a significant portion of the Democratic party has no values where as the Republican side has values.

Everyone has values. Those values may be disgusting, but they are values. Commies had the dream of building a state more responsive to the needs of the worker than a capitalist-driven state could. The Commies failed because they saw a market as a tool of oppression instead of as a control against waste and inefficiency and never considered that bureaucratic elites who managed without owning could be as oppressive and exploitative (just look at American executives) as aristocrats and tycoons from which the Marxists 'freed' the proletariat. That's before I discuss the body count. Fascists clearly believed in national pride, at least within their own nation -- but failed to recognize the legitimacy of national pride of their victims. 

We liberals recognize that as time passes, perceptions of reality change... and so do we. We have gone along with progress from rejecting the divine right of kings to recognizing same-sex rights. We have generally proved right. Your side cares only, it seems, for class privilege and the repression and deceit necessary for promoting and enforcing it. Those are values, but not those that can underpin a wholesome society.
 

Quote:People who share our values don't let gangs/mobs wreak havoc and destroy property and let their show hosts insult half the nation on a daily basis.

Black Lives Matter has made clear that the issue isn't that blacks must be free to get away with violent crimes or property crimes. It is about stopping police brutality that kills helpless black people. It's about putting an end to allowing white cops brutalize black suspects. Note well that there could easily be white people who could face similar treatment to George Floyd if the tables were turned. Think of the meth subculture, and just imagine what black cops must think about that.

If you want to know the truth -- the cops have already infiltrated Black Lives Matter. Add to this, people who took camcorders or cell phones with the capacity for taking video in the event of police misconduct have often filmed rioters instead. Spokespeople for Black Lives Matter don't defend someone who comes out of Target with merchandise not in shopping bags.      

Quote:I keep telling you to knock it off because the whole race thing and people not giving a shit about you people is going to eventually blow up in your faces.

The 'race' problem will eventually solve itself with race-mixing. That will compel white people to think about black relatives (East Asians might as well be white). But note well: we have a big problem with economic inequality that the Hard Right wishes to intensify until sybaritic indulgence by elites in the presence of mass destitution becomes the norm -- and that people are helpless, unable to avoid destitution even if they work to exhaustion and unable to use the political system or the media for redress of grievances. 

Quote:We don't give a shut about the Liberal's Bob and I doubt the minorities give a shit about you either. I guess you and every other white liberal are kind of *bad word*. It must suck being associated with a race that doesn't refer to each other as brothers and sisters unless directly related or we highly respect one another.

Toward the end of his tragically-foreshortened life, Dr. Martin Luther King took a trip to Appalachia and came to the conclusion that Appalachian whites were just as oppressed as blacks were at the time... which says much about poverty in America at the time. 

I can say this about the Talented Tenth of blacks (although the percentage that lives like the Talented Tenth of Booker T. Washington's day has expanded greatly, the principle still applies): the black economic elite seems to care about poor blacks far more than the white elite and the white middle class seems to care about white people left behind, as in the Mountain South. OK, if you really are black and you have moved up to the East Side to a deluxe apartment in the sky (theme song of The Jeffersons) then you know how close the ghetto is. On the other hand, if you are white and you live in the North Side of Chicago (where you might live like a German instead of an American without speaking German), then Appalachia is pretty country on the way to or from Great Smoky Mountains National Park and southern Missouri is an attractive extended trip on Interstate 44 on the way to Dallas or Los Angeles. McDonald's or Applebee's in Winchester, Kentucky or Lebanon, Missouri might be as close as you get to reality in such a place, and it isn't that much different from McDonald's or Applebee's in Skokie.  Life in America's Mountain South is statistically awful, and that has nothing to do with racial disparities as in the Deep South.

As a formerly middle-class white person now poor I now far more trust the expanded Talented Tenth of blacks than I trust the WASP elite.