The Partisan Divide on Issues

[Eric the Green]

(08-19-2020, 07:58 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-19-2020, 07:44 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Driving is actually a good example, regardless of what the constitution happens to say; along with my other examples which you echoed my sentiments on. There are limits to any freedom. And Scalia ruled that the 2nd permits regulation. That should be sufficient. Your gun rights are not infringed if they are kept within prescribed limits. Just like any freedom, it carries responsibility.

Agreed state militias should be well regulated, but you cannot currently ban ownership or carrying.  There are limits to every right, but they normally involve doing harm.  Removing a right of someone who is doing no harm is a big no no.

(08-19-2020, 07:44 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: But then, no need to argue, because I admit, I make these arguments from the perspective of someone who doesn't give a tinker's damn about gun rights. So, color me blue. Green, actually, of course

Well, you should care about the constitution and rule of law.  The recent Trump crisis came about because people who do not care about the constitution and rule of law got into power.  One should not encourage them.

Actually, I don't own a gun either.  I have no personal axe to grind.  However I do care a good deal about the rest of the human rights.  I do not want the government to have a path open to take them away.  The arrow of progress I often talk about is towards democracy, equality, and human rights.  Generally the blue support these.  In this case they have gone astray.

We disagree about that. This does not mean I don't care about the constitution and the rule of law. I do. I care also about the source of that law, which is ethics and values. You know about those too. For me, unregulated firearms infringe on the value of life. That's pretty clear to me. You "should" care about that value, and I think you do, just as I care about the law. We need to agree to disagree on the gun issue.

Notice that, being Green, I consider the arrow of progress (or the moral arc of the universe) to include the rights of Nature too.

I go farther and consider that arms of any kind infringe on the value of life, and should be abolished. That is a higher goal, like world peace. It may happen, someday. There's been progress toward it. But meanwhile, within that higher goal, there's room for compromise on my side, though the USA gun rights advocates are not willing to compromise, and furthermore are corrupt, as the state of New York now rightly contends.

Banning assault weapons and large magazines, and removing gun rights from people judged to be dangerous to themselves and others, have been legal steps in recent years and I certainly support them. Arms enable bad behavior, possibly at any time, and carrying them enables bad behavior grossly, in my opinion. It is also threatening to others, which harms others. This also means that the police feel threatened by the vast presence of guns, which contributes greatly to their misconduct-- resulting in more needless deaths of innocent people, especially to non-whites, which is now very much in the news. What we can do under the law about this fact may be restricted now, in the gun-obsessed USA at least, but someday it may not be. The USA has gone very far astray with its gun obsession, resulting in gross violence, such as wanton murder of children. The 2nd unfortunately has enabled this obsession. The USA is less free because of it, not more free. My prediction has come true already, for many years now, that until effective gun control is the law in the USA, massacres will continue and get worse. So it goes. Again, my firm opinion, very unlikely to change; but others may differ and that's their right.

I am not encouraging people to break the law. I am in favor of stricter gun laws. So, if they become law, I am not encouraging not caring about the rule of law.

Properly repealing the 2nd amendment is as harmonious with respect for the constitution and the law as repealing the 18th. I am not expecting this to happen soon. But, you never know in a 4T.