The Partisan Divide on Issues

[Classic-Xer]

(08-27-2020, 08:35 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-27-2020, 07:22 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Yep. There are those who are obsessed with looting and violence these days. We also have a political party that's either politically handcuffed for obvious reasons pertaining to race or creed or directly viewed as in cahoots with them as well. And yes, there are those who will resort or support those who resort to violence as a means to detour them or as means to defend themselves, their families, their communities, and so forth. Lets see, we earned our freedom with violence. The Texans earned their freedom with violence. The slaves were freed with violence. The Imperialist Japanese and Nazi Germany were conquered with violence and the Soviet Union was cutoff, isolated and contained by an understanding of America's history and American willingness/preference to fight wars abroad as a means to defend/protect the American homeland. So, whose territory am I in right now?

You are in the Industrial Age.  All the examples you gave are in the Industrial Age.  Well, the exception is containing the Soviet Union, and they fell due to non violence but have reverted to autocratic rule, so I'm not sure if they can be placed reliably as an Information Age culture.  Putin will eventually fall.  We will have to see how he falls.  Will a war be necessary?

In the Information Age you try non violence first, and if it succeeds great.  If you have to escalate, you escalate.  If the government is clinging to the old values is absolutely dedicated to the old values and is unwilling to change, and there is no peaceful way of transferring power, you resort to violence.  

Some still look at the Industrial Age to develop their view of how the universe works.  Some are carried on by their hunter gatherer genes, divide into us and them instinctively, and will use violence freely on the other group as they are bred to do.  When they think Americans, they think some subset of Americans who think like they do.  To them Americans doesn't mean all those who live in America.  America is given a perverted meaning.

I would suggest with my trying to combine turnings, ages, civilizations and behavioral science, I have warned people to be aware of shifting ages.  Thus, you are on my territory.

We do differ on who benefits from violence.  I see Trump as playing the fear card, of dividing Americans into us and them, of playing up the old us and them hunter gatherer instincts.  Biden is trying to unite all Americans who are listening, is trying to resolve things with protest and legislation rather than violence.  As I see a strong possibility that Biden and the Democrats will succeed in using protest and legislation to solve problems like COVID and violent racist policing, there is absolutely no need for violence save as a subtle threat.  

Even Martin Luther King listened occasionally to Malcom X.  Even he let his anger carry him away from time to time.  While I do not endorse the violence, I am not surprised by it.  It is in our nature as humans.  The threat of it enhances the protest and legislate process.  If violence wasn't a background threat, the establishment would be less inclined to cave.  This is not to say I am enthusiastic about wallowing in violence, or think the police shouldn't make it hard on those who choose to walk the violent path.  But, unfortunately, cultures are stubborn.  The more conservative folk will not collapse their privileged perspective as quickly if the violence isn't there.

That does not mean about every four score and seven years a new birth of freedom doesn't come.  You should have picked that up that from turning theory if nothing else.

Well, I think it's pretty clear that the incident with George Floyd and violence that followed benefited Biden and the Democratic establishment early on but as the violence has continued to drag on for whatever reason (complete incompetence, social or racial indifference among Democrats, political gains and financial gains associated with advancement, ideological support) for months the tide seems to have shifted enough to force an old Democrat off his couch and begin opening his mouth and condemning the violence and the people responsible for it like we've been doing for month. I already told you that I'd rather have Churchill than Chamberlain at this point. But, we're different people. I don't know which would be worse for old Biden and his token side kick, being defeated or being hounded, criticized and picked apart by Donald Trump.