08-03-2016, 01:53 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-03-2016, 02:17 PM by Eric the Green.)
"Personally i do not like the sound....BUT I get it and looked deeper and put the personal aside to look at the art critically as we should." -- Tara
"as we should?" "looked deeper?" "put the personal aside?"
If I had written that to Tara, she would have taken it as a personal attack. She attacks me whether I make a personal attack or not; just for giving my opinions.
She even went so far as to post only the words, on a music thread!
No Taramarie, it's the SOUND that's "deeper." If you do not like the sound, then it's NOT your pick for a "best song ever" and doesn't belong on that thread!
And music is not a matter of opinion, only. You can insult me for disagreeing with you, but that's my stand. You can disagree without being disagreeable, as you are so often. You are an angry girl and need to grow up. And not take everything as a personal attack.
Music is objective, because beauty is objective, has characteristics that are known, and we all hear the same thing. It's also subjective, because of what we bring to it. Our level of knowledge about the music, our personal interests, experiences and desires and what we look for in it, the kind of body and senses we have, etc. Not all songs are just as good, and not everyone has as good taste as I do, nor I as good taste as some others may have. And people vary a lot in their preferences too, and like a lot of different things. No-one can be put in a box. A difference of opinion about music, may mean that one person is right and the other person wrong about it. That certainly does not allow me to claim that I know better than anyone else about music. I have been wrong and have learned.
That is my best knowledge on this subject. And it is NOT a personal attack, if I say that I disagree with someone about a piece of music.
If I insult someone for their opinion, whether on philosophy, or on politics, or on music, then it IS a personal attack. I indulge in that on occasion. Don't think you are holier than thou, and that you don't do that. Because you DO, Tara; a lot! I don't engage in too many personal attacks though, because I respect people, and want a dialogue with them. And this forum is about the subject matter, not the participants. It is not about reforming ME. And it's not about endless personal squabbling. I will cut off the squabbles with you and let you have the last word. That I say this much at least means I have enough respect for you that I think you can understand what I write, though I doubt that you will.
I feel two ways about people liking such stuff as grunge, heavy metal, core punk, rap and shallow pop. On the one hand, as John Lennon said, whatever gets you through the night, it's all right. Whatever people enjoy is OK with me. I don't disrespect people for liking the music I don't, or vice-versa.
On the other hand, I say people ought to know better. That stuff is obvious trash (in my opinion). It is the worse stuff I have ever heard from any time in history, and I know a lot of times in history. That's why I think some of you guys can't really be serious, and why I even might say that that stuff is noise for boise. Of course, we all have our boys sides, and we never really fully grow up and throw out that part of us, so why is that an insult, Tara? "Shake it off," Tara. Stop preaching, and chill out, Miss angry, volatile Scorpio/Pluto young lady Millennial! It really is tiring. And this is not going to be the start of an endless squabble. I've said my piece, and I'm NOT going to change my mind due to insults from you, Tara. Grow up and stop being a boi.
I have an ideal: that we the people need to be more sensitive, gentle, feminine, discerning, interested in beauty, imaginative, open to mystical experience in the arts; and NOT just insist that our music has to be only macho and aggressive or else it's somehow inauthentic. Rubbish, and you ought to know better. The right balance is what I like.
I think the arts are as important to us as our politics and our science and philosophy. And we need GOOD arts, just as we need quality and good sense in the other things too. And I say that the sound and the musical qualities and the musicianship is the thing. If a song doesn't have that, it's not good, and it's certainly not one of the best-- whatever turning it's in, or whatever generation the artist or the fans may be, and whoever says it's cool and part of the time it's in. I have never liked music on that basis. The best-ever songs are TIMELESS, even though they also express a time. And yes, I think there's been less good American pop music in the 3T than in any other turning we know. I am open to hear anything that's good from that recent 3T time, however. And it's more likely to come from other venues and styles than "grunge, heavy metal, core punk, rap and shallow pop." (Iow sheer "noise"; no, noise is not art, and it's not music).
If you like the verbal message, you can read it. That's fine; I understand verbal arts are important too. I like good lyrics too. Although "the best songs ever: the lost years" is a music thread, and I say that lyrics alone shouldn't be there, I see nothing wrong with posting lyrics, as lyrics.
"as we should?" "looked deeper?" "put the personal aside?"
If I had written that to Tara, she would have taken it as a personal attack. She attacks me whether I make a personal attack or not; just for giving my opinions.
She even went so far as to post only the words, on a music thread!
No Taramarie, it's the SOUND that's "deeper." If you do not like the sound, then it's NOT your pick for a "best song ever" and doesn't belong on that thread!
And music is not a matter of opinion, only. You can insult me for disagreeing with you, but that's my stand. You can disagree without being disagreeable, as you are so often. You are an angry girl and need to grow up. And not take everything as a personal attack.
Music is objective, because beauty is objective, has characteristics that are known, and we all hear the same thing. It's also subjective, because of what we bring to it. Our level of knowledge about the music, our personal interests, experiences and desires and what we look for in it, the kind of body and senses we have, etc. Not all songs are just as good, and not everyone has as good taste as I do, nor I as good taste as some others may have. And people vary a lot in their preferences too, and like a lot of different things. No-one can be put in a box. A difference of opinion about music, may mean that one person is right and the other person wrong about it. That certainly does not allow me to claim that I know better than anyone else about music. I have been wrong and have learned.
That is my best knowledge on this subject. And it is NOT a personal attack, if I say that I disagree with someone about a piece of music.
If I insult someone for their opinion, whether on philosophy, or on politics, or on music, then it IS a personal attack. I indulge in that on occasion. Don't think you are holier than thou, and that you don't do that. Because you DO, Tara; a lot! I don't engage in too many personal attacks though, because I respect people, and want a dialogue with them. And this forum is about the subject matter, not the participants. It is not about reforming ME. And it's not about endless personal squabbling. I will cut off the squabbles with you and let you have the last word. That I say this much at least means I have enough respect for you that I think you can understand what I write, though I doubt that you will.
I feel two ways about people liking such stuff as grunge, heavy metal, core punk, rap and shallow pop. On the one hand, as John Lennon said, whatever gets you through the night, it's all right. Whatever people enjoy is OK with me. I don't disrespect people for liking the music I don't, or vice-versa.
On the other hand, I say people ought to know better. That stuff is obvious trash (in my opinion). It is the worse stuff I have ever heard from any time in history, and I know a lot of times in history. That's why I think some of you guys can't really be serious, and why I even might say that that stuff is noise for boise. Of course, we all have our boys sides, and we never really fully grow up and throw out that part of us, so why is that an insult, Tara? "Shake it off," Tara. Stop preaching, and chill out, Miss angry, volatile Scorpio/Pluto young lady Millennial! It really is tiring. And this is not going to be the start of an endless squabble. I've said my piece, and I'm NOT going to change my mind due to insults from you, Tara. Grow up and stop being a boi.
I have an ideal: that we the people need to be more sensitive, gentle, feminine, discerning, interested in beauty, imaginative, open to mystical experience in the arts; and NOT just insist that our music has to be only macho and aggressive or else it's somehow inauthentic. Rubbish, and you ought to know better. The right balance is what I like.
I think the arts are as important to us as our politics and our science and philosophy. And we need GOOD arts, just as we need quality and good sense in the other things too. And I say that the sound and the musical qualities and the musicianship is the thing. If a song doesn't have that, it's not good, and it's certainly not one of the best-- whatever turning it's in, or whatever generation the artist or the fans may be, and whoever says it's cool and part of the time it's in. I have never liked music on that basis. The best-ever songs are TIMELESS, even though they also express a time. And yes, I think there's been less good American pop music in the 3T than in any other turning we know. I am open to hear anything that's good from that recent 3T time, however. And it's more likely to come from other venues and styles than "grunge, heavy metal, core punk, rap and shallow pop." (Iow sheer "noise"; no, noise is not art, and it's not music).
If you like the verbal message, you can read it. That's fine; I understand verbal arts are important too. I like good lyrics too. Although "the best songs ever: the lost years" is a music thread, and I say that lyrics alone shouldn't be there, I see nothing wrong with posting lyrics, as lyrics.