01-05-2021, 12:37 AM
(11-25-2020, 05:23 PM)Mickey123 Wrote:(11-25-2020, 02:26 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: A mere 3% of voters for President Donald Trump think President-elect Joe Biden won the 2020 election, while 73% think the incumbent was the victor, according to a CNBC/Change Research poll.
As Trump repeatedly loses vote challenges in court as his lawyers fail to prove wrongdoing in the election count, two-thirds of his supporters think he should never concede to Biden.
The findings underscore the harm Trump’s unsubstantiated claims have done to confidence in the U.S. electoral system.
What you're missing here is that Trump's action is just one step in a long process.
The electoral system was already broken, as the entire media organization of the U.S. chose to abandon their historical role as objective (more or less) reporters of the news, and openly opposed Trump. When the media openly oppose one of the two political parties, that party can't have a fair election. This is why Trump is able to get away with claiming the election was stolen. Because it was stolen, but far earlier than election day, and not by anyone messing with ballots.
Of course, the media themselves did this because under the old system, Donald Trump never would have been the Republican presidential candidate in the first place. Under the old system, each party only nominated someone reasonable, someone who plays by the rules. Trump wasn't a politician and didn't play by the rules, and Republicans broke the old rules by nominating him.
This is how it goes in a Crisis. The system becomes increasingly unstable, and every reaction to this leads to yet more instability.
This process will continue until everything spirals out of control and the country is in a civil war or a revolutionary war. The only thing that can "save" us from this is a major external war, against China or Russia.
I think you, and the members of this forum in general, are making a mistake when you try to root for one side in this conflict. You have no idea where this is headed, and there's no way to even predict whether the outcome of any battle is good or bad in the long run. Maybe Biden winning the election results in Trump refusing to leave office and we have a successful fascist takeover of the U.S. Maybe Trump leaves, and Biden in time takes us to war against Russia, and this ends in nuclear war. The outcome of all this is currently unknowable.
As of now, it is unlikely that Trump can keep himself in office and thus engineer a fascist takeover of the USA. 10 former Defense Secretaries of both parties (led by Dick Cheney!) signed a letter to the Defense Dept. declaring in no uncertain terms that the military must stay out of the election and not stage a coup. There is still some danger that Trump's lackey Defense Secretary might order troops to protect Trump's refusal to leave the White House. But if this happens, the country will not function as before. The Nation will recognize Biden as president anyway, he will still take the Oath of Office at the Capitol, and if necessary Biden will make himself at home in another building. No-one will recognize Trump's orders except his coup participants. I don't think it will last long.
I am not making any mistake in rooting for the blue side. I know which side is right. You and other may disagree, and that is your right. The blue side will not start a "battle," it is a political contest. If our side wins, it will be legally and voted in. No, the only way out is not a civil war or an external war. We may get both at once, in fact, around 2025. I have predicted this. But if the blue side is in office after Nov.2024 (that depends on who the nominees are), it will prevail. The civil war will be conducted by a small group of crazies and defeated rather easily. The foreign war will be smaller scale too than in the past. Total wars are not really feasible anymore. But in a 4T, there is always a battle between the forces of progress and the forces of obstruction. There are no exceptions. This time, the battle is between my side and yours, the blue and the red. May the side of progress, my side, win.
You are definitely on the red side. You can't duck and cover from this label if you claim the media was "biased in favor of Trump." The MSM and most media does a good and fair job, and if anything the media created Trump by giving him by far the most free coverage, especially in 2016, but also in 2020. There was no "new system" that created Trump. He was just a skilled demagogue who was very adept at fooling enough people to get himself under the old system, which is still in place (the electoral college and the senate, created 230 years ago to keep slaveholders happy).
You are welcome Mickey to join our new forum. Bob Butler says my new facebook forum only attracts blues because I am admin, and I'm a blue. But I think some reds around helps enliven and widen the discussion. https://www.facebook.com/groups/396877864887524