I have a feeling that today (or yesterday) is probably a huge generational shift.

[Eric the Green]

(01-12-2021, 01:35 AM)mamabug Wrote: [quote pid='73308' dateline='1610424582']

Eric the Green Wrote:I don't know what "establishing Chaz" means. Is this some internet gaming term only millennials understand? Why assume boomers would know what it is? Don't worry, I'm not angry just sarcastic.

Hah!  I'm definitely not a Millenial, I am slap dab in the middle of Gen X which is probably why I have a 'pox on both your houses' approach to the current political situation.  

Yes, I see that now.

Quote:CHAZ = Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (or CHOP with the last two for Occupied Precinct or something? I only use the first because it captures the Monty Pythonesque, neo-60's vibe of the whole thing).  It was a 6 block occupied area of Seattle back around June or so that managed to push out the police and declare themselves independent of the USA. 

OK, I remember that. I wasn't as aware of the details as you were, being a local.

Quote: Maybe it is my Pac NW location, but we tend towards the more radical wing so they may seem to have more influence to me than they actually do.  I mean, the city trash collectors were authorized by the council to peek in people's recycle bins and leave polite little notes if they aren't doing it properly and, as I mentioned, there's an open communist on our city council.  Being close to Portland, I have seen antifa (and their anarchist predecessors from the 90's) up front at local protests and these guys are NOT an idea and they are NOT peaceful.  I don't like how, during an election year, the establishment appears to let them out of their box to play because I fear that one day they won't go back in.

Yes, I'm cynical about party leadership on both sides.  Did I mention I'm Gen X?

I know, however, that the left-orientation of the PacNW only applies to the urban areas, especially Seattle and Portland.

antifa is anti-fascist. They show up to challenge fascists. They are far less-violent than those on the right. I don't agree with their tactics, but that does not make them terrorists or someone to be feared. They are not the equivalent of the right-wing militias, but they are being used to good effect to denounce the left. That is the problem with them; they play into their enemy's hands. They are certainly not in the leadership of the Democratic Party.

Quote:Agree that if this turns revolutionary, it will be the left.  How violent it gets is up in the air, I'm pretty sure the Bolshevik's didn't anticipate Stalin or the French Robespierre. The likely path would be a takeover of the Democrat party, but that doesn't mean only the Republicans will be on the chopping block.  They will come for Biden and Pelosi, they will come for Tulsi Gabbard, they will come for the libertarians, they will come for the classical liberals, hell - they will probably put Bezos' head on a pike in the middle of the former CHAZ for all we can guess.  That still remains my 'worst case' scenario but I can't yet take it off the table.

They will come for them, in the sense that they will assert their own positions and work for them. It is possible that the Democratic Party (it's NOT the "Democrat Party"), could veer to the left in this upcoming progressive decade. Some violence could happen, but as you know my prediction is that it will come mainly from the right, as we have just seen, especially if the Democrats or liberals have the state power. A leftward spiral or trend was the pattern especially in the 1930s and 1960s, other progressive decades. I just don't see now that it is likely to go very far left, given the make-up of the United States and its spread of current political opinion. But, in a 4T anything can happen.

Quote:Many of the people caught up in the social media purges are neither seditionists (which, honestly, I think is a pretty high bar to clear in a country that believes in freedom to protest and free speech.  It is a law that has mostly been misused for political purposes or to boost a prosecutor's rep) nor white supremacists and all most of them are guilty of is unfavored speech.  Since these actions are being taken by private companies outside the protections of the first amendment, it makes everyone subject to their (and the twitter mob's) judgement of what groups should or should not be banned.  As economic actors, they are being pretty careful not to remove the biggest voices so they are only trimming the fringes (including some on the left).  We can't say when we will hit the low point in this pendulum swing so there is no guarantee that this, and no farther, is where things stop.

I seem to recall my Silent and Boomer teachers making us study this old poem that goes 'First they came for the Communists...' or something.  I'm sure whatever events it described ended well so I guess there's nothing to worry about.  

The events described were the Nazis in Germany; it did not end well. I guess your symbol means you were kidding. But the oppression I worry about is obviously that from Trump and his ilk. Trump is a fascist and so are his followers.

There is a lot of speech on those platforms that are overtly violent, and others that incite the violent elements. I saw such a post on parler that was shown to me in one of my facebook groups. Certainly not something to be allowed. These companies have standards of conduct which customers must agree to. I am grateful for the takedowns, just as I am for the takedowns of the Islamic State and other violent terrorist groups. Those that took over the Capitol are threatening more violence. They are worse than seditionists; they are terrorists. I hope Gen Z doesn't allow the white supremacists back. White supremacy has to go. It's past time.

Quote:At least we agree on something, Kamala Harris is the worst.  Actually, the one who kind of scares me the most is AOC - not for her ideas but because I honestly don't think she is all that smart and I get the vibe of a classic Queen Bee mean girl from her.  I'd take a grifting opportunist like Kamala over her any day.

I like AOC and hope she becomes majority leader some day. I don't think she is quite presidential material. I expect her modus operandi to get more mature; she is a very young millennial. She obviously has star power, and she makes a good appealing leader for the left and a good foil for attacks from the right. Her faction so far is rather small in the House. I get it that sometimes she can get rather temperamental in her attacks.

Quote:And, yea, by Visionary I meant a likeable Democratic candidate that most people are willing to follow even if they may not 100% agree with them on everything.  Sadly, one of the only national level dems who I actually find likeable was completely stomped on by her party and I don't know of any others.  I have a similar hard time picking out likeable politicians on the right, aside from those who are also marginalized by their party.  

According to my prophetic method, I am looking at Mitch Landrieu, Terry McAuliffe, and Susan Rice, and later Gavin Newsom, and there may be others. I am not in favor of businessmen running for president, so Andrew Yang does not appeal, and in any case does not measure up on my method. None of the 2020 primary candidates measure up; it was a poor field. And Kamala was indeed the lowest-scoring of the bunch.