Hillary Clinton is honest and trustworthy

[David Horn]

(08-17-2016, 11:27 AM)Mikebert Wrote:

David Horn Wrote:I don't disagree that, in what may be the final days of their party's existence, the entire GOP roster will do anything and everything to make the not-GOP POTUS squirm.

I don’t buy this narrative.  It refers to presidential election alone, and asserts that a single large defeat spells the end of their party.  McGovern got clobbered worse than Trump is going to be, and yet Dems went on to win the very next presidential election, hold House for the next 22 years and the Senate for 16 of those years.

McGovern may have been a poor candidate, and one not to the liking of the party nabobs, but he didn't actively work to tear the party apart.  In fact, he was a war hero, so being a pacifist was a lot harder to use against him personally so the power brokers held their fire as well.  Trump is different.  Think more along the lines of the 1824 race, which ended by splitting the Republican-Democrats in two, and eventually birthing the Whigs. This time it's the GOP that's strained because, frankly, their coalition never made sense from the beginning. Now, Trump pulled back the curtain and let the ugly out.  Do you honestly think this can be smoothed over?  If somehow it is, do you think the party will remain as strong in the future?   My bet: a realignment with the money moving to the Dems, setting-up an unstable coalition over there.

Mikebert Wrote:

David Horn Wrote:In his time, FDR got the same treatment.  The difference between then and now is how the response was handled.  FDR stood his ground, and gave better than he got.  I don't see Hillary in that role, because it's not in her nature.

Another false narrative as I see it.  FDR was elected AFTER the economy had collapsed. It was the collapse of the economy from an elite perspective that defeated the Republicans, FDR had nothing to do with that.  What FDR did was not fuck up too bad when it was his turn.

Right now the economy has never been better from an elite perspective.  As long as this remains true the Republican party and the corporate-dominated Democratic party will go from strength to strength.

Unless history truly repeats, FDR will remain the only President the elites tried to overthrow in a coup, albeit a poorly planned one.  The knives were out for him, but he used it as a strength rather than a weakness.  Hillary tends to rely on the woe-is-me; they-done-me-wrong approach.  

But you're right about one thing.  This is all about narrative.

Mikebert Wrote:

David Horn Wrote:If she had any vision of where she is going and how she might get there, she should be moving her message away from all-Hillary-all-the-time to a unity message with the down-ballot Democrats.  She should hang Trump on the entire party and call for a wholesale replacement of Congressional GOPpers with people who will move the country forward, rather than sink in a mire of incompetence.  She should encourage others to do likewise ... but she's not.

Running for president is a pain in the ass.  Nobody who didn’t want the position very much would put up with all that bullshit. Hillary very much wants to be president.  Why? What do you see as her motivation?

No, we agree 100% here.  Hillary wants the position and the prestige that goes with it.  I'm less convinced she actually wants to accomplish all that much though.  Most of her stated goals falls solidly in the small-ball range.  Since Presidents only get a portion of the things they request.  I see a disappointing next 4 years, maybe less inspiring than the post-2010 Obama experience ... setting up the critical 2020 election for the not-Dems