02-27-2021, 02:35 PM
(02-27-2021, 11:53 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: The three countries that you mentioned as "Natural" society are all Islamic by religion. Could some other religion have retarded modernity at some point, perhaps only to abandon the retardation for economic reasons? The Catholic Church used to be hostile to commerce and repressive of any dissent... but when it found that commerce and science make life better it changed its ways. The well-off farmer or skilled tradesman might put more money into the collection plate.
There are very Natural societies in Africa, Melanesia, the Amazon or Indian outback which follow pagan religions or nominal Christianity. But yes, Islam is the least conducive to Weird values among major faiths. Hinduism is slightly better but not much so. At least India learned democracy from the British colonialists, and still practices it.
Quote:I see the far East as more conformist than collectivist. Neither China (obvious enough with that political system), South Korea, nor Japan is a good place for a rebellious person. In the advanced industrial world, Japan is arguably the worst place in which to be a criminal. Although Japan has solid protections of freedom of conscience and has a free and competitive political system, it treats criminal offenders much like the PRC treats political offenders. The good thing to say about the Japanese penal system is that some offender who goes into it as an offender has been broken of attitudes that made him an offender. Of course, criminality is not quite WEIRD.
Yes, they look like a perpetual 1T. Though the collectivist ethos is strong in Confucianism, which remains an important factor. The prophetic wing of Far Eastern culture, Taoism, encourages withdrawal into solitary contemplation, or even ecstatic sexual experience, rather than challenging the establishment.
Quote:Positive feedback. If Marxist economics really worked (and Marxist societies succeed to the extent that they abandon the economic strictures of Marxism-Leninism do) they would likely foster WEIRD culture. Marx is definitely a figure of Western thought. Marxism isn't anti-intellectual by design (contrast fascism, Nazism, and Ku Kluxism which are all hostile to independent learning). Marxism is in part a quest in any rural and agrarian society that undergoes a Marxist takeover to industrialize rapidly. China and Russia were quite poor when the Commies took over, and under Commie rule they became much richer within 70 years than they had been. (It is telling now that the PRC is on the brink of lasting longer than "Soviet Russia" did).
What isn't WEIRD about any society informed upon Marx in politics (even if it has abandoned Marxist economics as has China) is the rejection of democracy. Marxism still has the concept of the Dictatorship of the Proletariat, and one thing is certain: if one is of proletarian origin and has a role in governing any political system beyond voting in elections, one is no longer part of the proletariat. The dictatorship remains, but it is still not that of, by, or for the proletariat.
In the 1920s the Soviet Union was a pioneer of many artistic and social trends, including "free love", but it later abandoned that in favour of more conservative social policy, allegedly because workers didn't appreciate Bohemian culture. On the other side, no society which fully embraced Weird values has a strong communist party. Jeremy Corbyn, despite being only a moderate Red type, suffered a devastating loss in the last British election. Commies had their big time in the transitional period, when Natural ways had already lost their appeal, but Weird culture wasn't fully formed.