Is It "Just Me," or Are We STILL in a 3T?

[Eric the Green]

(11-15-2021, 03:58 PM)galaxy Wrote:

(11-14-2021, 06:06 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: As always, we don't know if the progressive side will win and thus keep the country moving together, or if the reactionary side will win instead and our republic fails. It is up to us to defeat the Classic Xers and the other retrograde folks. The progressive side has always defeated those folks before; can our generations do any less? NO, we can't.

I hate to be that guy, but you're such a Prophet. Fanatically ideological. To be clear, I agree with most of your post, but I hope you realize that this trait of your generation is a big part of what has put us in our current situation.

Regardless of who "wins," this 4T will end. Every turning that has ever happened has ended, and this one will be no exception. Obviously, I very much hope the "progressive side wins," but it's important to remember that we *will* arrive in a 1T regardless, and that the only constant is change.


For what it's worth, it increasingly looks like the "sides" of the Cold Civil War - which are basically equivalent to the parties these days - are actually converging on a lot of issues, even as they claim to be further apart than ever. I view that as a good sign.

I am not a fanatic; just a good observer and historian. And I am indeed a prophet, in every sense. I am certainly outspoken and not always diplomatic.

The people who have put us in this situation are those who cling to false ideologies: neoliberalism (Reaganomics), racism, militarism, the religious right. It is a mistake to think Boomers are the only ones who promote and get stuck on these. I am not ideological; I understand what the nation needs to do. Saying what needs to be done is not fanaticism or ideology. I am also not ideological because I do see that compromise and settling for what we can get are options to consider, and that expecting perfection from our elected officials is for those people even further off the deep end or outside the box than I am.

Gen X and Millennials and Silents and our forebears are just as responsible if not more so than Boomers for our current plight. Gen Xers are cynics and too easily bamboozled by individualist nonsense. Millennials do not fulfill their civic role well enough, such as voting in midterms, probably because education and especially civics classes have been sabotaged and destroyed by the neoliberal owners of this society. Silents have become insecure, reactionary sticks in the mud. Not that I say Boomers are without fault; we have not stayed true to our original ideals, but are still pompous and arrogant as we always were-- except during the 2T. I hope we have it within us to pull through; I have always believed so, but right now I am not so sure.

We will not arrive in a 1T unless the progressive side wins. A nation declines and dies if it does not advance and meet the needs of the time. We have always made it before; the progressive side has always won. If a 4T fails, the nation fails and ends soon, or is taken over by external powers. This may be the end of the 4T, but it is not a first turning as the authors described it. You can't just say "things always change" and expect to say anything coherent. Change into what? Whether things turn out OK will depend on what we do and how/whether we vote.

A win does not mean final victory on all issues, or elimination of those who disagree; just enough to make some progress rather than the nation being destroyed. A 4T is always a struggle for the continued existence of the nation. It is under severe threat now, and it hangs in the balance, and our decision is on the ballot in every election now. Keep that in mind; it has always been that way during our fourth turnings. Remember the Gettysburg address.

I don't see much convergence. The Congress did finally pass some infrastructure funding, but the parties are divided on build back better and voting rights, including being blocked by two DINOs, and unless these pass we have not yet addressed our urgent needs without which we cannot survive. Right now the Republicans continue to be stuck on Reaganomics and racism, and the people are still willing to desert a Democratic president if everything doesn't go perfectly. About 40% or more of us no longer know what democracy and rule of law means. Americans are as ignorant today as they have ever been. 

I realize though that reform and crisis eras do not achieve progress all at once, and it takes time. Things seem to be failing when we are in the middle of the 4T, as we are now.