Does this 4T seem a little 2T-ish to anyone else?

[Eric the Green]

(03-13-2022, 09:56 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(03-12-2022, 04:01 PM)linus Wrote: I think this 4t (and maybe others too) is like the last 2t turned inside out, with the Nixon-Reagan majority collision in a slow death spiral, much as the New Deal majority coalition declined and fell in the late 1960s and 70s.

What are the hallmarks of a majority coalition in its latter days? A greater concern for speaking its truths (ie the "free speech" movement of today's GOP, and its preoccupation with "political correctness") than effectively governing, and addressing the problems of the day (back in the day it was inflation, crime, unemployment, and national security - today it is inequality, the high cost of health care, housing, and higher education, as well as now [and again] Russia, only this time with the GOP divided between Putin equivocators and extreme hawks). The rise of extremist groups, cults, and conspiracy theories that threaten civil society (back in the day it was the rise of the revolutionary left, following the Weatherman takeover of SDS, and the string of acronymical radical groups - the BLA, SLA, FALN - et al, and now it's the rise of far right groups, effectively merging with the GOP under Trump and now after him; then of course QAnon and all that toxic nonsense, some offshoots of which have dangerous cult-like qualities).

Provided we all don't end up vaporized in a third world war, I continue to think that despite whatever setbacks, here and abroad, the center-left will prevail and this time will reflect very, very poorly on the American right - with lasting consequences politically, and reputationally.

I have my doubts about short-term success, since we have not made any progress to speak about since the 4T began in 2008.  If the 4T runs for 20 years (unusually long for an activist turning), the amount of change needed to set a new paradigm to tear apart in the following swing-right better start soon ... and big.

It may be interesting to note that Ezra Kline wrote a column for the NY Times that noted the problem as liberal in origin, when liberal activists worked hard to hobble all levels of government that did more harm than good at the time.  Now, the tools they created are used to stop all progress in its tracks.  Now that's schadenfreude if I ever saw it.

I think linus you make the right points. 

I think what the "liberals" did back in the 2T and 3T that was damaging, and I count myself among them, is embrace conspiracy theory, about JFK in particular, and then about 9-11. I don't think the government programs of the sixties did too much harm. Maybe some excess, but the "urban renewal" as it actually occurred was really not liberal; just more red-lining and black removal. That guy in New York, Mr. Moses I think his name was, did a lot of damage, and so did others in many cities, but this was not liberal. 

But indulging in conspiracy theory exaggerated the suspicion of government in our society, which was damaged even more by the (I would argue non-liberal) excesses of the war-making machines machinations and lies, and by real conspiracies exposed by special prosecutors and investigative journalists; conspiracies also motivated by protecting the lucrative war machine and its military industrial complex.

The JFK and 9-11 theories, originally posed by the left and liberals like me, and also alleged to be part of these MIC lies, eventually led to wholesale distrust of government that, along with all the other problems and lies, have made it now impossible to function, and many people automatically assume some nefarious cabal is behind every unsavory event or trend. linus mentioned some of these. And the 2T and 3T new age and post-modernist trends also cast a lot of doubt on materialist science, and again that includes me, and its doubt is often well-deserved; but now we need some correction in the other direction, including more respect for objective truth. It is certainly at-least superior to mere speculation and unverified fantasy and "connecting the dots" to blame some imaginary cabal. And now the right-wing has taken over the conspiracy field, and it's now dangerous to our health (covid and anti-vax conspiracy theories), our democracy (Trump's rigged election and attempted coup and voter suppression) and our very climate (false charges that climate change science is a hoax to raise taxes).

My fun little essay about conspiracy theory, followed by some very substantial and scientific links, is here: https://philosopherswheel.com/thereasonf...acies.html