Aaaaand I was 100% WRONG About China

[Eric the Green]

(08-31-2022, 06:15 AM)JasonBlack Wrote:

Quote:And we are more energy independent because of the potential of renewable energy. 100 square miles of solar power alone (to say nothing of wind onshore and offshore), spread out over the country and on rooftops, can supply ALL our energy needs. Coal is no longer an option, period! That, my friend, indeed needs to be shut down ASAP! Republicans and their Supreme Court resist this, and thus keep the climate crisis accelerating, which creates feedback loops to make the crisis worse and shut down our hydro power.

1) You'll have to forgive me for being skeptical. What are you basing this claim off of?
2) Solar power is only able to provide power during the day time. That's fine for much of the year, but not for electric cars which need to be charged at night or during the Winter months when you're without light or power after 5am
3) The carbon footprint of the creation of solar panels is a lot higher than what most people realize, especially given most have a relatively short lifespan. 
4) China has 3-4x the population of America with a fraction of the open space. Easier said than done. 
None of this is to say we (or, in this case, China) shouldn't use solar panels. The point is we aren't currently at a point where we can rely on them as the dominant fuel source. We can and should expand their usage, but necessary does not equal sufficient.

1. Studies I have read. I keep stating it wrong though, forgive me! A 100 mile by 100 mile area, I meant.
2. Batteries will spread out solar power, and so will wind.
3. There is some carbon footprint for making solar panels, but much less when the energy to make them ALSO comes from solar/renewables. And the life span is increasing. Studies I have seen say there is 13 times less carbon footprint over the lifetime of solar energy than for coal.
4. Of COURSE currently; we can't rely on what we haven't built yet!

Googling #1 now, I see this: PV panels on just 22,000 square miles of the nation’s total land area – about the size of Lake Michigan – could supply enough electricity to power the entire United States.
That's 145 by 145 miles.
https://www.energy.gov/eere/solar/solar-...ted-states
More complicate study! https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy13osti/56290.pdf

This article says:
21,250 square miles of solar panels to meet the total electricity requirements of the United States for a year.
https://www.freeingenergy.com/how-much-s...r-the-u-s/

Elon Musk said at first only 10,000 square kilometers.
https://blogs.ucl.ac.uk/energy/2015/05/2...er-the-us/
This article has the Musk claim as 10000 square miles. That was his later revision according to the next article below.
https://www.pcmag.com/news/elon-musk-run...-of-panels

An estimate that includes a lot more space for space between panels and other space ends up as I figure it about 248 miles by 248 miles.
https://www.inverse.com/innovation/elon-...e-key-flaw
Of course, in reality this space would be spread out in multiple locations and include rooftops, plus wind (on and offshore) and hydro, but still needs grid transportation from sunny areas like Texas, and batteries. We wouldn't be fencing off a 100 or 250 mile by 100 or 250 mile area. The 100 by 100 mile measurement apparently applies to just the panels, wherever they may be placed.
In reality too, some agriculture can still be carried on under the shade of the panels.

For the whole world, I have heard 400x400 miles, which according to the above article would be 1000x1000 miles.
This is the study I had seen earlier:
https://www.businessinsider.com/map-show...rth-2015-9

This site says 340 by 340 miles
https://africaneyereport.com/how-many-so...the-world/