[Bon Butler]Not so clear today…there are no new elites that in order to size power over the old elites must make promises of change to the People.
[
Mike]I might suggest part of the difference is the benefit of hindsight. I agree with Kinser, and the definition of Progressive is the history of what happens, which is written by the winners.
[BobI see it as a red - blue thing, a rural - urban thing, perhaps to some extent a religious - secular thing.
[Mike] Also white versus minority. And culturally old versus new.
[Bob Butler]There are folks on either side of all these divides in all generations, though there is a trend that the younger generations are leaning more blue.
[
Mike]I suspect it’s always this way, the younger generation tends to be more comfortable with the new, having no experience of the past.
[Bob]I see the turning point as the National Malaise as declared by President Carter….
[Mike] And that is when inequality began its upwards surge.
[Bob]I do think we need a newer deal. This would involve tuning the country to benefit the People more, the elites less. One problem is that there is no new elite group that would benefit from such a transition.
[Mike]Well who was the new elite last time? The new economy and old economy elites were pretty much on the same side politically then as they are now. What happened was new elites were created by the Democratic party in order to preserve the political advantage the Depression had temporarily granted them. Big Labor became an elite during the 4T. WW II programs helped create a new professional/ academic elite whom I call the mandarins.
During the 2T mandarins migrated to the left and the Democratic party decided to embrace them (as a rising group to replace the Southern political elites fleeing the party) . Hence, since Carter the Democratic party has emphasized mandarin values rather than Labor values, and that is largely why the white working class feels abandoned. They pretty much have been.
[
Mike]I might suggest part of the difference is the benefit of hindsight. I agree with Kinser, and the definition of Progressive is the history of what happens, which is written by the winners.
[BobI see it as a red - blue thing, a rural - urban thing, perhaps to some extent a religious - secular thing.
[Mike] Also white versus minority. And culturally old versus new.
[Bob Butler]There are folks on either side of all these divides in all generations, though there is a trend that the younger generations are leaning more blue.
[
Mike]I suspect it’s always this way, the younger generation tends to be more comfortable with the new, having no experience of the past.
[Bob]I see the turning point as the National Malaise as declared by President Carter….
[Mike] And that is when inequality began its upwards surge.
[Bob]I do think we need a newer deal. This would involve tuning the country to benefit the People more, the elites less. One problem is that there is no new elite group that would benefit from such a transition.
[Mike]Well who was the new elite last time? The new economy and old economy elites were pretty much on the same side politically then as they are now. What happened was new elites were created by the Democratic party in order to preserve the political advantage the Depression had temporarily granted them. Big Labor became an elite during the 4T. WW II programs helped create a new professional/ academic elite whom I call the mandarins.
During the 2T mandarins migrated to the left and the Democratic party decided to embrace them (as a rising group to replace the Southern political elites fleeing the party) . Hence, since Carter the Democratic party has emphasized mandarin values rather than Labor values, and that is largely why the white working class feels abandoned. They pretty much have been.