06-02-2018, 08:53 PM
(06-02-2018, 04:18 PM)TheNomad Wrote:(06-02-2018, 04:09 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Well maybe, but what you are saying is just what the blue boomers are saying and still stand for. We boomers knew every bit of this back in the 60s. We said all these things back then. The problem is we have been stalemated ever since, because the corporate big shots got together and installed corporate trickle-down economics into our government, and the reformers have been shoved aside ever since. So yes, blue is the right party, or green is the right party, or whoever is saying and doing the right things, and we need the gray champions to come out and be leaders along with the young champions. We need to vote, and vote to take back the system from all the rigging: the gerrymandering, the money-grubbing, the vote suppression, every bit of it. Yes, voting on the basis of real knowledge and concern, is the cure for a lot of what you mentioned. The young people like those who spoke at the March for Our Lives know this. Bernie made inequality and hyper-capitalism his issue; other candidates will as well.
I don't know if we can bring back the Mom and Pop economy and tear down all the big box stores. Maybe that's just the age we live in. But we can do a lot to make the bosses pay, and open up the economy to the little guy. I always thought it would take a spiritual renaissance as well. Then we get into the other side of life, and the whole nature of our worldviews that dehumanize and disenchant the world. This is more of a 2T than a 4T process, but this time, you could see some awakening from the consumer materialism too. More people everyday see that the purpose of life is not to make money and buy things, but to discover, to wonder, to create beauty, to love and make friends, to resonate with higher vibrations going on, to help each other. The boomers discovered this in youth, and many of us have forgotten. But it's still there somewhere in our hearts, and younger people can appreciate and resurrect this tradition from the past awakening and all past awakenings, instead of settling for today's cynicism and narrow worldviews.
The Prophets may have been the needed outrage in youth but their place in their cycle now is ONLY culture wars. That is just what I believe. Either side, all sides. You say "whoever is saying and doing the right things" but they all say the right things and then DO the the destructive things anyway. It's totally acceptable now for any politician to stand in front of people to say one thing then do the exact opposite. That's how the system works.
You can't say that voting is the answer because no matter what color the winner is, they are indebted to the Powers behind the scenes OR THEY WOULDN'T BE THE WINNER. The Powers of Corporatocracy decides who wins. I don't believe we can ask or expect elected officials to change something like gerrymandering when their Corporate Constituents are benefiting from it.
We need to believe, and know, that it can be changed, and that many politicians do the right things. Or else the 4T you don't want continues forever.
Quote:The younger people must have the moral compass to resist this evil and that's the only way it can change. I do see a moral compass on the scene, but not yet with enough power to transform yet. I do not think the aging boomers will join them except maybe as a photo op or a planned association to benefit their own campaigns like "LOOK we identify with these people" but then they will just go and do what they do anyway. They are liars. Nomads will and certainly the "helpmate" artists will.
I disagree
Quote:As for mom & pop, no I can't see a return of that. It's too late. I only used that as an example of how incessant greed and abuse on the consumer was sort of held accountable because society was "smaller" and you went down the street to buy food products or a TV set from someone in the neighborhood you knew and who knew you. There was a connection, and that lessened the ability for faceless entities of The Corporation to take advantage of everyone. I miss when I was a kid going to the video store, I knew the owner, they knew me and my family, it was a nice experience and I was not gouged for someone's balance sheet. But can I say the same for Netflix, for example. They don't know me nor me them. Or f@cebook who view all of us as chattel to be data-mined and exploited to the extreme. When you first join up the f@acebook you are greeted by a picture of Murk Suckerburg on the screen as if he's your friend guiding you to the social gathering of your friends and family. To me that's the same as when you call any customer service about a problem and the AUTOMATED VOICE apologizes to you that you've experienced a problem. Seriously? Does anyone beside me think of these things? A ROBOT basically is apologizing to you. That's really offensive. For example, where I live has terrible internet service that gets "scheduled maintenance" probably 3-4 times per week between the hours of midnight and 6am. I'm losing money because I'm constantly without the services I pay for. I call as many times as I can and ask for a refund for the lack of service. But only after 20 minutes of music and waiting and automated apologies designed to make you hang up so you DON'T get a refund.
Suckerberg lol
Maybe millennials won't want to follow blue gray champions, but for a while, they will need to vote, as the younger generation says, for those elders who share their values and knowledge.
Quote:As you've said in second paragraph, it isn't about legislative reform so much as it is about PEOPLE who arrive with actual humanity. People who have a moral compass, people that fill these "slots" who are not looking to some law or edict to force them into a better morality, for that must come from within. I do hope this Hero Millenial generation has that trait and from what I see, I can envision that happening.
The boomers in the 2T sought to develop this. Your generation views us as having failed in that. However, your generation also rejects the spiritual renaissance that provided the means for people to discover their spirit and morals within.
Quote:Cynicism is often a good thing. How many past generations got frakked because they trusted the government, the voting system, the party system......... they are OK with only being provided 2 candidates for everything, and those two candidates are THE SAME PERSON usually..... both will make almost identical promises, assure people they will "work across the aisle" and then everyone is dissatisfied with the 2 choices and ALWAYS vote for the lesser of 2 evils. I cannot remember a time when America actually voted for someone they WANTED as opposed to who they DID NOT want. This could be said of Reagan, Clinton, Obama.......... but even with them, a huge percent of people did not want them at all even though they won by large margins. I try not to leave those people out because they, too, are Americans and even though I may not agree with their views, they have the right to WANT a candidate instead of settling for the less of 2 worst.
Cynicism can be a good thing, to a point; until it stops people from taking action, voting and participating. Then, it's not good. An idealistic pragmatic realism accepts the obvious truth that candidates won't do everything you want them to do. Incremental progress is better than none. And though I usually vote beyond the two main parties, I recognize that in this system, any progress is better than regression, and that's the blue vs. red choice. Xers are supposed to be pragmatic. Those who are, put aside emotion and look at the facts and strategies of what will actually work.
Quote:The authors do describe a semi return to mom&pop business ideals...... I can't envision a world without walmart or home depot (not because I want them but because how hard is it to UNINSTALL such things after the fact?). I'm a cynic in that I don't believe a global economic model can be stopped even though that is the source of so many ills in our American society. We can't go back.
We can, however, look forward and finally get ahead of the curve. We can begin stopping things before they happen. But the problem with that is no one wants to or can believe or understand the terrors waiting around the corner and do nothing to stop it. America takes 50+ years to identify and believe a scam affecting millions. It wasn't until 1992 and the movie JFK that people as a whole began to accept that was a plot to remove someone in power who would not cave to the Military Industrial Complex.
Yes, we can stop it. "We can, however, look forward and finally get ahead of the curve." Yes. But if Xers such as you and beechnut are not willing to work and vote in alliance with blue boomers, it probably can't happen, because no generation can do what is needed to be done by itself without the others. Boomers still have a lot of the votes and the leadership, and there are good ones to work with.
No, your example of JFK does not fly. JFK was murdered by Oswald acting alone. All the facts on that are well proven, and open and shut. I looked into it myself very thoroughly. No case was ever more clear-cut. This was the granddaddy of today's conspiracy theories, and I once believed it too. But conspiracy theories today are almost all bogus, and contribute to cynicism that is destructive. The Establishment may be bad, but it is not as bad as people think who view the world through the lens of conspiracy theories. "9-11 truth" is another one that doesn't hold up entirely. There is no need to exaggerate using conspiracy theory. The facts are bad enough by themselves. We need to learn this. There's no need to debate JFK. People can look into it for themselves quite easily.
Quote:Further, remember all those JFK documents that were supposed to be released? They keep getting pushed back. Why? Because Bush The First is still alive and the Bush family of that generation (Prescott, etc) have the blood on their hands. Believe me, when Bush The First finally expires, we will finally find the connections (they've already been found but no mainstream media will touch it) and that's what I mean when the COURSE of American evil is identified too late, nothing can be done. Even now, no one will say that CAPITALISM is causing major problems and Crisis in America. The Corporation came before Bush II in 2008 and basically said "if you don't give us all the money we are asking for, there will be economic collapse". How is that different from walking into a bank with a gun and demanding all the cash?
They got away with it. The powers that be, including Xers, have not been willing to put the greedy ones in their place. I don't know to what extent millennials will do this.
Quote:Maybe it should have been allowed to collapse (if it was even real to begin with). And who ended up with that money? Was it filtered down to the average worker? No. It was supplied to executives and politicians for their golden parachutes and for their 7th yacht docked in the island of Scorpia. What kind of America have we become in the last 70+ years? Our leaders have no interest in what happens to us, they blatantly steal from us.
That's true. And it is mainly the Republicans who are responsible, although some Democrats are complicit. This is a matter of politics, for sure. Political policies created all this. It was deliberate. Business is not held accountable in the Republican trickle-down ideology. It is allowed to get away with anything. Progressive Democrats favor the regulations that were taken down which do prevent this crap from happening. Yes they do.
Quote:A really cool symbolism I heard was that there used to be SLAVERY. Humans were used as basically cattle to perform tasks so the wealthy could be wealthy. But there was a problem. The slave owners had to feed and house their slaves. So an innovation was made. There are still slaves, except now, the slaves must feed and house THEMSELVES. This wipes a huge expense off the slave-owners' bottom line. Ridiculous rent, unbelievable housing prices, the cost of food and clothing, etc. The slave is still SERVING except the Master no longer has to accommodate them on-site or assist their day-to-day living. That's some REAL shit!
True enough, I'm in agreement.