It looks like Trump is setting the mood for the 1T.

[Eric the Green]

(11-19-2016, 09:38 AM)Odin Wrote:

(11-19-2016, 05:47 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-18-2016, 08:23 PM)Odin Wrote:

(11-18-2016, 01:25 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(11-18-2016, 12:42 PM)Mikebert Wrote: I don't understand this thread title.  Most assume the 4T started in 2008, so we are 8 years in.  The nominal length for turnings is 22 years and the last one lasted 24, so lets use 22.  This forecasts the start of the 1T around 2030.  Isn't a little early to be talking about the 1T?

It's way early.

Part of this meme is gloating by the Trumpistas. They think foolishly that DT is equivalent to FDR (a supposedly Right Wing version) and that the Regeneracy is upon us. Very foolish. It's like unbuckling and walking around the cabin after hitting some light chop only to get head slammed into the cabin ceiling when the real turbulence hits.

The Dems under Obama done goofed and failed to read the growing anti-globalization and anti-technocratic mood of the country, so now the electorate are giving the GOP a shot. Hopefully the Dems can get their shit together and craft a message that matches that mood rather than fighting a losing battle in defense of neoliberalism.

Calling the Democrats' campaign a defense of neo-liberalism is certainly a great exaggeration. Clinton called out Trump for his trickle-down schemes very clearly. But it's true the anti-free trade message by Trump resonated more powerfully and that needs to change. I'm not sure Trump's voters even realize the extent to which computer automation has cost them their jobs, and it's not clear that anyone can do anything about it.

You failed to understand my post. In a democracy you are supposed to give the people what they want, but the establishment technocrats in the party (The folks moaning and groaning about "but why don't they understand that free trade is GOOD for them???" or "But we need the TPP for diplomatic reasons!") have come to see the views of ordinary people as a "problem" rather than the whole point of democracy.

The "establishment technocrats" (why you call them technocrats is another issue) and corporate globalists disagree with the anti-globalist and anti-free traders. Some people on each side may run down the other side, but that's beside the point, or just provides more heat than light. Free trade is neo-liberal; tariffs are economic nationalist and pro-labor. Personally I agree with the economic nationalists in most cases, but not to the extreme that the anti-one-worlders do. It's just a policy issue that people care about. Democrats need to take note of the increasing anti-free trade sentiment that Trump has appealed to. No disagreement with you there.

Quote:I call those technocrats neoliberal because that is what they are, ideologically. They may be on the left-wing end of neoliberalism (neo-Keynesianism) but they are still part of the neoliberal "Washington Consensus".

Neo-liberalism is classical liberalism, trickle-down, free market economics, supply-side, or laissez faire. Keynesianism is on the opposite side of that, "ideologically." It is part of the solution, when needed; by no means the only one.

It will do us no good to confuse things, or pander to the people who mistakenly voted for Trump by claiming they represent ideas that must now be adhered to. They don't. No, the liberals can't give them what they want. They must give them what they need (hey, that's Trump's theme song! Maybe we can use it to in reverse). They want neo-liberalism, and liberals must offer them the real 20th century liberalism, and be able to persuade them to the extent that they can. It just so happens that Trump was a better persuader than Hillary. It's the horoscope scores, apparently. Or whatever you call the inherent personality of the candidates. That was the major factor.


What is 'Neoliberalism'
Liberalism, in economics, refers to a freeing of the economy by eliminating regulations and barriers that restrict what actors can do. Neoliberal policies aim for a laissez-faire approach to economic development.

Neoliberalism has been used by various scholars, critics and analysts, mainly referring to an upspring of 19th century ideas connected to economic liberalism that began in the 1970s and 1980s. These ideals advocate for extensive economic liberalization and policies that extend the rights and abilities of the private sector over the public sector, specifically the shutting down of state and government power over the economy. Neoliberalism supports fiscal austerity, deregulation, free trade, privatization and greatly reduced government spending.... This approach has most famously been connected to various economic policies introduced in the United Kingdom by Margaret Thatcher and in the United States by Ronald Reagan......

Read more: Neoliberalism Definition | Investopedia
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/neoliberalism.asp


The "Trumpsters" combine extreme neo-liberal laissez faire with economic nationalism, with some contradictory Keynesianism thrown in. It's an unusual combination, but it will fail. Trump is a con-man. It is certainly "establishment," and the people in the rust belt who thought Trump was "anti-establishment" were fooled. Republican voters past and present often refuse to face up to the failure of neo-liberalism, which they embrace with a fundamentalist faith.

I disagree with throwing terms around and defining them any way you want to suit the styles and passions of the moment.