02-05-2021, 05:12 PM
(This post was last modified: 02-05-2021, 05:14 PM by Eric the Green.)
(02-04-2021, 09:50 PM)mamabug Wrote:(02-04-2021, 06:23 PM)David Horn Wrote: They tend to favor the oppressed over their oppressors, and reserve the right to define who, what and which. Since they tend to be loosely affiliated, the range of opinions will be rather wide. 'They' have no opinion on violence either, because there is no 'they'. I'm sure there are violent people calling themselves Antifa, and there are others who get their internal marching orders from anti-violence. To be honest, they are a bit of a conundrum.
The motte and bailey arguments with regard to them are disingenuous at best. By that standard, you could call White Nationalism or Islamic Fundamentalism 'an idea.'
How about this - there is, in the PNW, a large network of organized and loosely affiliated groups that claim to be operating in the name of anti-fascism when what they mean by 'fascist' is the American State itself. They hold that anyone supporting the state either actively as an agent or passively through not participating in the revolution is participating in fascism. They hold that non-violence is a tool of the state, therefore acting non-violently is participating in fascism so it is morally justified to use violence against those supporting the state. They hold that the idea of property is also a tool of the state, therefore willful destruction of property is fighting fascism.
They are smart enough to avoid naming themselves anything other than 'anti-fascists' because they know useful idiots will go around explaining how it's just a concept in order to pretend the violent Left doesn't exist. Just consider, though, that they might not be your friends. They turned on two of the most liberal mayors in the country because they didn't cave sufficiently enough to their demands and, then when they did cave, continued to turn on them because that wasn't enough. What they want, at heart, is to overthrow the American System and replace it with themselves.
The only difference between the violent Left and the violent Right is that the latter is given no cover by even those they claim to be on the same ideological side of, which is a good thing. OTOH, the violent Left have enough power within deep blue cities to destroy property, commit assault, and even kill people with near impunity. This isn't political power they themselves hold, it is power due to how effective their self-marketing campaign has been in convincing normal left-leaning individuals to think they are 'the resistance.'
If you still think there is no violent Left, then I would like to cordially invite you to go for a walk in down near the federal justice center in Portland while wearing a red baseball cap.
I disagree that this violent left groups is specifically "antifa." There are no doubt some people like this, loosely described as "anarchists," who seem to be poorly organized, and I have not heard of fatalities committed by them as you allege. I have heard of property damage committed by them, mostly in the PNW.
The political "Left" in general in the USA, which we may call liberal Democrats, democratic socialists, Greens, etc, does not consist in such groups, and this USA political "Left" does not support or agree with them or derive any power or benefit from them. They play into the hands of the right-wing, as does the actual antifa group-- which is not quite the same. Antifa confronts fascists when they march or riot, and can do so violently. That's not to say that some members of antifa are not also like the anarchists you describe.
Is Einzige one of them? I don't know. Most of these what I call "anarchists" are probably not Marxists either.