The Partisan Divide on Issues

[Cynic Hero '86]

(12-05-2019, 08:08 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-05-2019, 10:06 AM)Cynic Hero Wrote: Pbrower, You and Eric especially need to understand that progressives (Supporters of Bernie, Tulsi, Yang, Marianne, Krystal ball, etc.) Supporters and Conservatives are increasingly coming to both hate Establishment Neoliberals a lot more than they do each other. The Clintonistas talk of fighting "red" libertarian/Conservatives politically but are unaware of the resentment they are generating within their own party regarding the the Last primary and likely the Current primary as well. The DNC in its current familiarly known form may not even make it to the actual Democrats vs Republicans phase of the 2020 election next fall; if they pursue the course they are showing obvious signs of doing.

Regarding Impeachment, the DNC is obviously using it as a political cheap shot, which is why they are embracing the laughable idea of a closed-door impeachment. If Establishment democrats genuinely feel so strongly about impeachment and/or grounds for an prerequisites for that process; then why aren't you even attempting to do it the constitutionally mandated way, because that would mean the establishment candidates would have to return to DC to participate in congressional and senatorial review sessions, if that occurs (Bernie would also have to go back to DC, but he already has name-recognition so that wouldn't matter that much to him). Most of the establishment candidates would be crippled in the primary if that happened. The political motivations behind impeachment are quite transparent.

If the DNC screws us, you will face a mass internal party revolt of Millennials, White Moderates, Latinos, Northern Blacks and Asians. The DNC would be left with Establishment White Liberals, Some Neocon defectors and Southern Blacks basically. It would be impossible for clintonistas to even think of defeating Classic-Xer-type "reds" if that happens. Instead you won't even be able to have the option of focusing your electoral weight against solely the conservatives: Because you would have provoked a "Two-front War".

Classic and Kinser can weigh in on this discussion as well.

I think the impeachment thingy going on in the House is needed to insure that the liberal Democrats remain in power and remain the ones in charge of the DNC. The DNC is basically the cash cow or liberal  piggy  bank they need to have   control over and fund everything of value related to liberal's themselves these days and the liberal system of preference that we are seeing first hand these day.  

Personally, I don't see the Democratic party coming out of this thingy ( 3T/4T/1T/whatever one believes) in one piece.  The southern blacks are different than the northern blacks. The southern blacks aren't as socially/politically coddled as the northern blacks these days. So, I see the southern blacks returning to the party of Lincoln and MLK's values and I see the northern blacks remaining with the party of Obama and liberal values. This is just my take. After two world wars, I don't see us going back to isolationism. However, I do see us eventually withdrawing from several liberal oriented agreements with the UN and see us becoming more of an independent, American first country that has more of a limited role globally.

I partially disagree with how this would come about and the exact alignments you outlined here. What I mean and what and I think would happen is that when the DNC collapses, the DNC Rump would consist of establishment white liberals, some neocons and Southern Blacks. This Party would still call itself the "Democratic Party" and still call its organization "the DNC" but it would be a rump party consisting of pro-establishment constituencies. Millennials, Hispanics, Asians, And Northern Blacks would probably form their own party (probably called the Progressive party or something) and we would have a three-party system for a while consisting of the GOP, the Progressive party and the Rump DNC. I agree with an eventual return of southern blacks to a conservative party but probably not until the next 2T, when that eventually does happen the DNC rump would itself collapse and we would have a two party system again consisting of the GOP and the Progressive Party.

The three Mid-4T to early 2T parties would be:

Conservatives (consisting of the Current GOP Bases of Support minus establishment Neocons like the Bushes and Mccains)

Progressives (Consisting of Millennials, Hispanics, Asians, and Northern Blacks). This would be a strange "entrepreneural Socialist" Type party which would advocate Big Government regarding Policies regarding Moving People from Dependent to Independent Classes but would Probably oppose the Current Entitlement System (which disproportionally awards retirees and Pro-establishment boomer constituencies), Unlike the Rump DNC this party would probably NOT oppose the 2nd Admendment but would support limited gun Control. Like the Trump GOP they would support Economic Protectionism, but adopt a Moderate policy toward Immigration (Probably expel violent illegals and any future illegals, but allow legal immigrants and non-violent illegals already here).

Although it is not overtly obvious yet (because the DNC hasn't collapsed yet), you can get an example of How this progressive party would think based on their internet critques of Current politics. Even though this party doesn't exist yet. Like any political review these days they have their own biases as well however.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6cY-CghyKY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfRT7rs2Ea4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuYO7OIYB2c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEppmewM-1Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGlyVW_Tp8k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjK8Ghxi5Zk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_B3f9w8F5c

Note that there is very little Chance that Progressives would support establishment liberals if a divorce takes place if one reviews the comment threads in the links as well.

Liberals (Consisting of establishment "limousine white liberals", Neocons, and Southern blacks, Liberal Jews may also go here as well): Would Support things such as Free-trade, wars abroad, Unrestrained immigration, anti-2nd Admendment. These types would tend to demand a return to Clinton/Bush/Obama policies essentially. They would also demand Mass gun clampdowns but will generally be ignored by basically everyone else on that issue.

As Before: All sides are invited to Please issue critiques of this analysis.